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Interesting dynamic at 60bb game 2-5 blinds

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I have been playing recently at the Bike who has a 2/3 blind game with a 100-300 buy in. The only place in LA where you can buy in for 100bbs with small blinds. virtually every time I have played there I eek out a few hundred here and there and the occasional 400 win. Saturday I played at the Hustler because I had gone to a xmas party with friends and didnt want to drive the 35 min to the bike. Hustler is less than 15 min from my house.

I normally dont play there because there smaller blind game is a 2-5 100-300 game. The extra play with the bike i thought was better... I am wondering now. I have been in situations at least 4 times in the last two sessions where my opponent is pot committed by my bet (and I am betting for value) and they shove and I have to call.

spot 1 I raise pre with AQ two callers.. effective stacks are 400... 60 in pot. flop comes A9T with two clubs.. I bet 50.. both call. turn A dia.. I bet 150 and now player next to act shoves for like 170 more.. I think for a second and I dont think he is bluffing but I dont think he has A9, At or set because flop was so wet. probabaly AJ or weaker ace.. I call and he had AJ.. I win a big pot..

in the deeper game this would be alot hard to call since the reraise all in could be a pot size raise rather than half pot or even smaller.. Since then three other times I am getting shoved on and havent had less than 3:1 odds to call. Each time I have a value hand.. two times I had the best hand and twice I was behind and sucked out.

got me thinking... I normally fold when that much heat is on me in the deeper game... in the shorter game I almost always have to call and therefore I get some positive variance to outdraw villain..

How much of this type of positive variance do you need to be a winning player?

I don't like getting it in badly but to get good variance you need to..




  • Travisp33 Posts: 15Member
    Wendy - I don't know that game personally (I'm from az), but my hunch would be it would attract more gamble type players and scare off ex Internet players who scoff at sub 100bb poker. Based on your posts here, your obviously a great player and should crush that game with a few small adjustments.

    When online was still legal, I was 18-24 tabling the 20-50bb game on stars and doing pretty well. Basically just slightly widen your preflop value range, and eliminate all spec hands preflop. I also widened my pf 3b value range, and skewed my bluffing range to Ax os and Kxs types of hands so I could flop strong pairs and stack off occasionally when called.

    Obviously you get to really widen out your vale range post flop as well. Probably something like tp3k = tptk, 2p=set, str=flush, etc etc when compared with the bike 5/5 game. Frankly I can't imagine folding tp there much.

    I think this might come down to a bankroll question at the end of the day. I'm new to clp/latb so I haven't seen you play but your posts on here seem really good. I would imagine if you can bring that thought process to the table you would be fine in the 5/5 game, unless the br isn't there.

    Regarding getting it in vs folding and never sucking out, yea, you are right. I remember having a raging argument with one of the coaches at dc on this subject re: hot/cold equity never being realized. Personally, I hate playing deep because my roll isn't where I want it to be, and I understand what a huge mathematical mistake it is to stack off too light when deep. Therefore I skew to hard into hands that can make the nuts, and end up playing much too tight. I don't think everyone was made for deep stacked poker - and if your roll is light at all forget it- buy in for 70bb or something and rathole until the roll is solid.
  • Against unknown opposition at low level NL I would always consider that they are shoving back sometimes with worse hands. Hero folding at this level is -EV. There will be situations against opponents that you have been able to profile that you will need to fold some of these value hands but against unknowns sometime you just have to go with it.

    Although your sample is small being 2 ahead 2 behind shows that on the balance of all decisions you are well ahead by stacking off considering what you had to call for what was already in the pot. Even if you just won the two and didn't suck out you'd still be way ahead in terms of what you had to call to win.

    There's certainly more variance at this level when stacks go in lighter.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber

    I played exactly as you stated above.. I tried to really concentrate on a value range since the stacks are so small implied hands really cant be played.. Sometimes the table does get deeper and then I can play those types of hands. I also pretty much played in position as well... threw hands away in the blinds to pretty much any raise unless it was a premium hand...

    Last night when I played I moved from a bad table to a table where one player was raising almost 90% of hands.. I three bet him with AT os and he folded to my cbet on the flop.. Everyone else at the table was just letting him run them over..

    Once I got a lot deeper I did start raising with SCs.. did win a huge pot against the laggy with 45 clubs when I was preflop raiser and he and a uber tight player called as well. Laggy had a tell.. he bet when he was bluffing and checked or check raised with hands.. lol he three barreled.. I called with pair and straight draw that had backdoor flush on turn.. so that wasn't too tight but he had almost 400 bucks..

    As far as playing the 5/5 I could play as I have a job and my bankroll can be replenished.. I decided a few months ago to really work on hand reading (which I wasn't really paying too much attention) and get back to basics.. I just didn't want to play at a higher level and run the risk of losing a lot of money. More of an anti-tilt thing.. I had been pretty depressed with my poker for a long time and kept thinking it was because I was getting unlucky. Although that was a big part it wasn't the only part and I really needed to relearn how to play the game. So I moved down and have been working on my game ever since.

    I have just been amazed at how the structure of Hustler's game is so radically different than at the Bike. The players are bad at both but with the shorter stacks the players can't get away from their "value" hands or hands they think are the nuts and since I tend to have a better value hand and they are playing their hand not mine I am doing well .. Its only two sessions but I wan't to play it more and see if it continues..

    or maybe I am just running better and I think I am playing well but just getting lucky.. for a change..Laugh
  • Travisp33 Posts: 15Member
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