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Flopped at set and all I wanted to do was get it in. Right or wrong thinking?

OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hand 4 (18/12/16)

I'm a bit more than a part time player and my winnings help fund my life. I currently float between 7-8bb/hr and I want to get up to 10bb/hr next year. So I have some work to do and want CLP support.

Tonight was a $5/$5 game $200-$700.
I haven't had a over a $2k loss since 11/11/16. But it's like every month I have at least one big lose. Tonight I lost $2.3k and I need advice on these hands. I wasn't tilted and playing crappy hands after I lost a big pot. I think I had a different type of tilt where if had a decent enough hand I just wanted to get it and get some back and get some momentum.

What's the thoughts of playing over agrressive in these spots?!Were generally I'm infront but tonight I just value owned myself.

I'm playing what looks agressive and building that image. Opening and 3beting more than normal, but my pre flop hand distributions are making this happen.
I've shown one bluff for a $50 bet in a small pot.

V is just a standard player. I have 3b him twice in this session and I wasn't going to keep putting pressure on him unless I had a decent hand.

Utg open $20, V on the button calls, hero closes the action in the bb with 33 $700 effective.

Pot $65

Flop
2 3 7 :r:

H donks $25 . I was honestly over the moon to flop a set and all I wanted to do was get it all in. I couldn't really put the V on an exact range he could have tp, draw or float overs, all I could see was my set to be honest.

V calls

Pot $115

Turn 10 and now a back door flush.

H checks
V bets $75
H raises $225 (I think I have the best and I also want it to look a bit bluffie and build a pot, still don't know what v has just hope he thinks I'm full of it and has top pair)

Pot $565

River off suit J

H has $470ish behind. What's the heros best play bet for value, max value and stick it in or check call.
How should I range V in this spot as I'm only thinking what I have in my hand.




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Comments

  • Beatsme Posts: 587Subscriber
    I really like the lead otf. I would probably bet bigger! Like 35-45. If they are calling 25 they are prob calling 40.

    I would just keep betting ott. Bet 100 or so. I think a standard villain checks back this turn a lot.

    I'm having a hard time ranging the villain. What hand could he have to call preflop. Call a small donk otf. Bet when checked to then call a check raise ott. Maybe A7 of the backdoor fd? Maybe QQ, JJ or TT or a flopped set. He could maybe have T7. He could maybe have turned a fd to along with his wheel draw. I think 88 and 99 prob fold to the check raise. Would he really hold on with just a 7 to a check raise? I think he could have TT or JJ... thone hands make a lot of sense.

    All that said I think going for a shove is too thin. I think I like a small value bet and then folding to a shove. Maybe bet fold 200 targeting T7 or 88,99 or A7. Maybe even a smaller bet would be better 150.
  • 2thdoctor Posts: 66Subscriber
    You donk lead looks really weak at 1/3ish pot, so the fact that he floats flop doesn't really tell us much about his range. I agree with beatsme I think the lead should be 40-50 and have an overpair raise you and make this a serious pot.

    On the turn as played I like to continue to lead. The check raise looks so strong, one advantage is you appear to have a flush that led out with a draw on the flop and then somehow got a check raise on the turn. The fact that V called is also strong, presumably it appears he has a draw that can beat a flush. Maybe the naked Ad (Ad7x, AdTx, AdKx?) or a set (though I think a set on the flop likely raises you to build a pot, so maybe villian has TT?? Seems like monsters-under-the-bed.

    On the river... I don't know that you're getting called by worse very often, seems like V was calling hoping to catch up on the river (and I highly doubt he has JJ), so is this a time we should check-call and let V try to bet his way out of this with missed draws? We might value-own ourselves here occasionally if villian actually turned a middle flush (I think all 45dd,56dd,64dd are going big on the flop), but more often than not if villian has a made hand he's checking back the river due to our strange line, or betting if they decide to bluff AdX

    -2th
  • KelbyMarvinKelbyMarvin Posts: 230Subscriber
    This is super player dependent. Is he good enough to recognize that there aren't many draws on that board? Or that there aren't many 2p combos? If yes then I might lead lead lead. If he's just looking at the strength of his own hand then I'm looking to play the hand for a turn or flop c/r to get the money in.

    As played 45 flop
    C/R 265ish turn
    Jam river
  • Beatsme Posts: 587Subscriber
    KSM said:
    This is super player dependent. Is he good enough to recognize that there aren't many draws on that board? Or that there aren't many 2p combos? If yes then I might lead lead lead. If he's just looking at the strength of his own hand then I'm looking to play the hand for a turn or flop c/r to get the money in.

    As played 45 flop
    C/R 265ish turn
    Jam river
    What hand calls our jam otr that we beat besides 22 and T7?
  • KelbyMarvinKelbyMarvin Posts: 230Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    beatsme said:
    KSM said:
    This is super player dependent. Is he good enough to recognize that there aren't many draws on that board? Or that there aren't many 2p combos? If yes then I might lead lead lead. If he's just looking at the strength of his own hand then I'm looking to play the hand for a turn or flop c/r to get the money in.

    As played 45 flop
    C/R 265ish turn
    Jam river
    What hand calls our jam otr that we beat besides 22 and T7?
    QQ-AA
    Occasionally random hands like QJ, KJ, AJ suited to the backdoor draw.
    He opened UTG and called a C/R on the turn. He doesn't really have 22 or T7.
  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    I think u played the hand really well and with a poor image this is a snap shove all in on the river.
    Also if u can't control yourself when u lose a big pot and you play a gambley style of poker where u play too many hands bad hands you should just go home or take a 2 to 3 hour break.
  • Jacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    I like check call flop, check raise turn. Keeps you balanced and also such a dry flop that overpairs probably give you 3 streets. I'm not sure I like check raising this flop ever as it is so dry that you pretty much have to have sets or a draw.
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    OMGitsWorm said:

    V is just a standard player.

    Utg open $20, V on the button calls, hero closes the action in the bb with 33 $700 effective.

    Pot $65

    Flop
    2 3 7 :r:

    H donks $25

    V calls

    Pot $115

    Turn 10 and now a back door flush.

    H checks
    V bets $75
    H raises $225

    Pot $565

    River off suit J

    KSM said:
    He opened UTG and called a C/R on the turn. He doesn't really have 22 or T7.
    I think V is the dude on the button who's been calling.
    I don't think he's got QQ-AA in his range.

    V on the button could have 89, 77, 22, 23, TT, JJ, 56 or 45 in his range.

    What hands do we think he's calling that we beat?
    not many.

  • KelbyMarvinKelbyMarvin Posts: 230Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    beauregard said:
    OMGitsWorm said:

    V is just a standard player.

    Utg open $20, V on the button calls, hero closes the action in the bb with 33 $700 effective.

    Pot $65

    Flop
    2 3 7 :r:

    H donks $25

    V calls

    Pot $115

    Turn 10 and now a back door flush.

    H checks
    V bets $75
    H raises $225

    Pot $565

    River off suit J

    KSM said:
    He opened UTG and called a C/R on the turn. He doesn't really have 22 or T7.
    I think V is the dude on the button who's been calling.
    I don't think he's got QQ-AA in his range.

    V on the button could have 89, 77, 22, 23, TT, JJ, 56 or 45 in his range.

    What hands do we think he's calling that we beat?
    not many.

    Whoops. Still player dependent obv. But if you think he'll bluff missed 45 or value bet light maybe lead lead c/c rivers is better. If not then probably just bet/bet/bet.
  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 352SubscriberProfessional
    i'm a big fan of donking a nutted range, but i don't like it here because of relative position. preflop raiser is next to act after you, and i think i'm checking 100% of my range here. he's most likely going to cbet on a ragged board, and then you can possibly get a field call and check raise. even if he doesn't c bet, field player may take a stab.

    ap i prolly bet ~315ish on river.
  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    squishmytomato said:
    i'm a big fan of donking a nutted range, but i don't like it here because of relative position. preflop raiser is next to act after you, and i think i'm checking 100% of my range here. he's most likely going to cbet on a ragged board, and then you can possibly get a field call and check raise. even if he doesn't c bet, field player may take a stab.

    ap i prolly bet ~315ish on river.
    Correct me where I am wrong, and please say opinions, but is there not something to be said that betting $315 and leaving a small amount of chips in front of us $165 vs $470 all in ....The $315 actually looks stronger as it represents a lower bluffing frequency b/c it leaves chips in front of us.
    If the player is any type of a thinking player he is likely to pick up on this, which I think a good half of players now are thinking players in 2016 at the $5 dollar blind level. (Still exploitable and very beatable but thinking players none the less)
    Years ago I would agree it's all about the absolute dollar amount and the price given in accordance to the pot and their hand but now I feel for a lot more players like 50% vs 10 years ago 10% its more about the read the villain makes than the absolute dollar amount or the price.

    Please tell me how I am wrong here
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    JKH

    you are never bluffing when you leave villain a little left. that doesnt make sense.. You are trying to play FPS in this hand. your lead and then turn check raise is sooooo strong..

    Squishy is right ..with villain on your direct left you should have check raised small flop or turn.. that looks less strong..
  • Benjamin Posts: 14Subscriber
    Not all sets are created equal. Things that make a set's value decrease:

    It's a small set
    Being out of position for the entire hand.
    You're against a player who knows how to fold big pairs to turn check raises and/or river all ins

    i also don't think you have to donk here. People still cbet bluff 3 way dry boards right?

    When someone donks into me on dry multiway boards my ears perk up and am quite unlikely to stack off later. Might just be me


  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 352SubscriberProfessional
    @jkh i actually agree w u here. after further thinking, i think id go either 225 here, or all in. still dislike the donk bet tho.
  • OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
    I tend to donk with a big hand if my image isn't looking the best.

    After reading these posts I had nothing but tunnel vision on my hand only. The V is an ok player and given the run out I was finding it hard to put him on a 2pair combo. I contemplated other sets but dismissed them. Guess I was tilted and not hand ranging him because my donk and then check raise is super strong. I should of slowed down and thought about it.
  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    OMGitsWorm said:
    I tend to donk with a big hand if my image isn't looking the best.

    After reading these posts I had nothing but tunnel vision on my hand only. The V is an ok player and given the run out I was finding it hard to put him on a 2pair combo. I contemplated other sets but dismissed them. Guess I was tilted and not hand ranging him because my donk and then check raise is super strong. I should of slowed down and thought about it.
    It is super strong, but ok if u had a bad image and not as good with a good image.
  • OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
    I'm constantly considering my image. I hate saying bad image thou. I'm not a bad player, the distribution of cards weren't going my way then I made some not so good plays which gives you that losing "bad player" image. But honestly on the night I thought I was easily the best player. Just didn't play that way
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