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Hand against laggy reg at the Wynn

AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
V1 is in his 30's middle eastern aggro reg, likely a small winning pro. Plays 65% of hands preflop, likes to 3-bet a lot in position, views me as a reg on tighter side. We're $1300 effective with V1 at the Wynn, straddled pot, 2/5/10. V2 is older guy opens in UTG+3 for $35 and V1 3! to $90. Hero in BB with A A decides to flat.

Flop: K 5 3

Checked around to V1 who cbets $175, Hero calls V2 mucks.

Turn: Q

Hero check calls $380

River: 6

Hero checks, Villain moves all in - as played, my hand is under rep'ed and I decide to call off.

Thoughts on taking this bluff catching line and relying on pure pre-flop hand strength to force V1 make a better hand?

River action
  1. Should Hero call All in on River?13 votes
    1. Call
      46.15%
    2. Fold
      53.85%
«1

Comments

  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    Just because a player is aggro doesn't necessarily mean he is super bluffy/suicidal. If you haven't seen him 3-barrel off his stack with air before, then the river is a fold. When you c/c flop on a board with no draws, after having cold-called villain's pre-flop 3!, then your hand looks pretty strong, and I don't think it's as "under-repped" as you think it is. Plus, lots of villain's value hands get there on the turn, namely KK, QQ, and KQ, all hands villain would likely 3! with pre-flop.

    If villain looks at you as being pretty bad, he might be taking this line with AK or KJs, but you said he views you as a tight reg, so I'd think that he would slow down with AK or KJ, either by checking back river, or by betting smaller on turn.
  • A_A Posts: 30Member
    Although I can guess that you lost since you posted. I think the call is good. We need to be good 1/3 of the time and with our hand being perceived as capped at kJ villain can value bet kJ through AA. He has some combo of JT T9 . Some pairs turning into bluff. Again this is only if he is truly as described. These combos make up for the KK QQ kq. Also betsize on the flop makes me discard KK.
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    Listing pot size on each street would be very helpful. I think this is a call. I think he takes this line with AK. If he does, we have the odds to call.
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    edited December 2016
    A_A said:
    Although I can guess that you lost since you posted. I think the call is good. We need to be good 1/3 of the time and with our hand being perceived as capped at kJ villain can value bet kJ through AA. He has some combo of JT T9 . Some pairs turning into bluff. Again this is only if he is truly as described. These combos make up for the KK QQ kq. Also betsize on the flop makes me discard KK.
    25% of the time by my calculations. We're 29% vs range of KK-QQ,AKs,KQs,AKo,KQo. I think a fold can't be too horrible, I think it's a close spot.

    I think when we underrep big pairs like this by flatting 3bs pre... we run into these issues. If we're not particularly good at navigating this postflop maybe 4b is a better line to take. I'm seeing a trend in these posts, including my own where we take this slowplay line and are facing a huge river shove or even overshove and our life sucks.
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    edited December 2016
    ..


  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    ...
  • fishcake Posts: 937Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    Tank for 2 minutes and fold for ICM considerations.
  • AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
    A_A good job on the hand reading. I called and he showed T9, and then went on to berate me for calling off my stack with just a pair.

    Btw, this is almost always a flat call here agaisnt a lag, 4-bet would fold out the original raiser and the lag may call once preflop and muck 75% of the time to my cbet. I doubled through twice by flatting big pairs oop against overly aggro players and then stationing off my stack to their ridiculous bluffs
  • ddz Posts: 150SubscriberProfessional
    fishcake said:
    Tank for 2 minutes and fold for ICM considerations.
    LOL!! :tu: :tu:
  • workinghard Posts: 1,562Subscriber
    Hero in BB with A♣ A♥ decides to flat
    if this is your play OOP, you need to be doing it with a reason. that reason is that villain has a propensity to bluff off his stack. if you decide that vil may bluff off his stack a good percentage of the time, then you check call and just keep check calling till the river. If you are not sure if you willing to check call it all, then 4 bet. so what I'm saying is that when you get to the river and check and villain shoves, if you are not sure if you should call or fold, you made a mistake preflop with just calling the 3 bet.
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    edited December 2016
    ...
  • AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
    @working hard : mostly agree with your comment except this is not my typical play with AA OOP.

    With AA I want the max value to go in pre-flop. Against this V1 who is 3! Very light if I 4-bet it will look very strong. Unless I am 4! with bluffs which I am doing sometimes, but I am relatively new to the table and they will give me credit for a big hand. Nothing worse than 4! and then V2 mucks and V1 may call once and fold to cbet

    Also, I am never sure of anything, LOL. I wasn't sure I was good when I called. But I thought I was good at least 50% of the time.
  • workinghard Posts: 1,562Subscriber
    , likely a small winning pro. Plays 65% of hands preflop,
    not a winning pro playing that many hands. i just don't see how that's possible
  • maphacks Posts: 1,992Subscriber
    AlexB said:
    A_A good job on the hand reading. I called and he showed T9, and then went on to berate me for calling off my stack with just a pair.

    Btw, this is almost always a flat call here agaisnt a lag, 4-bet would fold out the original raiser and the lag may call once preflop and muck 75% of the time to my cbet. I doubled through twice by flatting big pairs oop against overly aggro players and then stationing off my stack to their ridiculous bluffs
    it really depends on your dynamic against the LAG. I typically want to 3b/4b A LOT against those type of players and make them feel uncomfortable. a 65% vpip LAG is a fish in my eyes and I believe fighting fire with fire is good if you know how to do it. if we 3b and 4b a lot, we want to have AA in our range of course.
    on the other hand if he doesn't back down postflop, I can see the call as well. however, if that is the case I obvoiusly snap him off OTR.

  • Jacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    iamallin said:
    ...
    Would you stop posting this on every thread? Is it a bump? What's the purpose of it?

    AlexB, you're trying to trap your opponent by calling down and he plays too many hands. Pre I'd reraise because you don't want to go 3 ways and you're OOP pretty deep getting you into some tough spots (like this one). I find it hard to then fold your hand after trying to trap. What was your plan? Were you going to fold any non-A river?


  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    fishcake said:
    Tank for 2 minutes and fold for ICM considerations.
    2 mins is not a tank

    :wink:
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    edited December 2016
    workinghard said:
    so what I'm saying is that when you get to the river and check and villain shoves, if you are not sure if you should call or fold, you made a mistake preflop with just calling the 3 bet.
    I don't think that's necessarily the case. Sometimes we take the most +EV line on an earlier street but end up facing a tough decision on a later street and we still need to be flexible in our decision and take in and adjust to new information.

    This is an outrageous example to illustrate my point but here we go. You 3b AA to reasonable size and get called, cbet and face a raise on the flop and it's a tough spot. Does that mean you should've just shoved AA pre for a humongous amount? Nope.

  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    edited December 2016
    workinghard said:
    , likely a small winning pro. Plays 65% of hands preflop,
    not a winning pro playing that many hands. i just don't see how that's possible
    And the way he played this hand is bad in my opinion.

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    Given how wide he is in 3 betting does he call 4 bets? You can make it small say a little over min clicking to day 200 that way you get more money in making it not only easier to play postflop but also hes prob gonna call and given what he had he might try a play

    There is a kid that moved up from1-3 raises and 3! In pos with a too high frequency. Now with 99+ and say AJ i 3 bet him for value. I will call wider if in the blinds too and let him barrel off.

    I would flat a tight player not a laggy one
  • AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
    In vegas games when your image is on tigher side, you tend to get many folds for 4bet. So it looks too strong. I used to 4bet AA every time and most times don't win much unless the opponent has a premium hand. Ofcourse against a tight 3bettor I am 4betting, but against a loose player who is mostly weak I like to flat and keep them in the pot
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