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Facing a flop 4bet with bottom set

SteamedFish Posts: 32SubscriberProfessional
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Snetosa Singapore $10/$20

Villain is a 40's something European guy, looks like he knows how to play, but I've never seen him before, hes probably a tourist. There is no history between us, I sat down about 6 orbits ago and have played 1 hand since I'm a super NIT

Hero CO 3 3 $2,800
Villain in UTG+2 $2,300

UTG+1 limp, Villain limps, MP+1 limps, Hero limps, SB folds and BB checks

Flop 3 6 7
BB, UTG checks,
Villain checks, MP+1 checks,
Hero bets out $50,
BB folds, UTG folds,
Villain thinks a while then raises to $150
MP+1 folds,
Hero 3bets to $400
Villain thinks a bit then 4bets to $900

If I put him on a range of 66, 77, 76s, 54s, A 2 -A J the equity is 45.14% hero 54.86% villain

EV = 1360*0.4514 - 900*0.5486 = $120
say he went all in on the 4bet then it would be
EV = 2760*0.4514 - 1900*0.5486 = $204

but say I only put him on a range of 66, 77,76s,54s the equity is 27.47% hero 72.53% villain

EV = 1360*0.2747 - 900*0.7253= -$279.178
say he went all in on the 4bet then it would be
EV = 2760*0.2747 - 1900*0.7253 = -$620


  • pokertime Posts: 2,180Subscriber
    IP just call and evaluate turn. It's a tough spot and I wouldn't rush to punt off my stack.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,391Subscriber
    I think your range for this villain is too wide. I do not believe your villain would 4 bet all of the AXdd combos. More like A6dd, A9 - AQdd. I would also add in 98dd and maybe 85dd. Bottom set here blows, and I'd expect the villain to be nutted here.

    If you make the call, the pot will be about $1910 and the villain has less than a PSB going into the turn ($1310). You are essentially bluff catching hoping he doesn't fire the turn.
  • ddz Posts: 150SubscriberProfessional
    Agree with above. You are giving villain WAY too many Axdd combos. Give him one combo of A5dd (combo draw), which I think is probably still a little generous, and redo your calculations
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,391Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    Yeah, I should have mentioned A5dd as well.
  • SteamedFish Posts: 32SubscriberProfessional
    Yes you are of course all correct.

    Anyhow, I went all-in.

    Reasons where, I thought he might have 67 for two pair or a flush draw and if it was set over set than I thought, that's life. I also thought he was bluffing me with the raise and now getting frustrated his bluff was working so he was now 4bet bluffing.

    Basically whatever I think at the poker table, the opposite tends to be true!

    My thinking was totally stupid, since I've been studying all week before this hand, about the kind of hands that check the flop OOP. From my studies, 2-pair hands bet the flop OOP on a draw heavy board. And then flush draws also often bet the flop OOP as a semi-bluff. The kind of hands that check the flop OOP are sets and the nuts. So from my own studies I should have been able to figure out where I was in this hand. But for some reason I forgot all I had been studying the previous week, whilst in this hand.

    The worst thing about my play, was that I didn't even see there was a Nut straight out there in the form of 45, all I could see was 2-pair, sets or flush/straight draws.

    So I went all-in and villain called with 4s5s for the straight.

    Board ran out QQ and so I had the full house and won the hand.

    But I was pretty disappointed for the rest of the session in how I played this hand.
  • maphacks Posts: 1,992Subscriber
    you have a nitty image and he seems like he knows what he is doing. I don't think 3betting flop is good. 66,77 and to a lesser extend 54s makes perfect sense as an overlimp.
    of course he will have some combodraws but it's not great to bloat up the pot vs a range of higher sets, straight and combo draws. I am not positive he would raise 76s or a combodraw vs your 3b. I expect him to sometimes 4b bigger with a combodraw so it would fold.

    bet/call flop and go from there.
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    what do you guys think of.. just chucking it to the first raise?
  • maphacks Posts: 1,992Subscriber
    definitely just call the $150.
  • volition Posts: 1SubscriberProfessional
    Trying to not be results oriented, but I believe bet/call on the flop is a better line in your position given you have bottom set and there is a possible straight already on the board (45). I believe this will keep the Villain 'wider', where bet/3 betting flop might tend towards Villain only staying in /raising with better.

    If you had top set I think it's closer towards bet/3bet as villain can have lower sets also which we want to get stacks in versus.
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