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Lessons

Anyone in the Baltimore, Washington area intrested in giving lessons to a male, female couple. Looking for something reasonable, but aren't we all.

Comments

  • Fiestagirl Posts: 40Subscriber
    I feel like I'm a wiining player now as stated in my last post. Just want to take some of my winnings and get even better
  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Just make sure you really check them out if you get a response. Plenty of iffy "coaches" out there. Pay by the lesson at first even if it's a little more. Some will want you to buy a block of lessons but I wouldn't do that until you've established they are the coach for you.
  • Fiestagirl Posts: 40Subscriber
    Ok I'll do that. Thanks for the great advice
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,243Member
    edited January 2017
    @Fiestagirl
    You're paying for a subscription to a poker training site that specializes in live poker which means you're paying a very low price but will receive coaching from several players.
    Poker is a complex game, posting hands while bouncing off ideas of one another is a great way to get better, yes you need to do some work at home on a lot of 'stuff' and if you post specific questions you'll be steered in the right direction but never spoon fed.
    When you include the videos/discussions/homework you'll see a change in your thought process/logic.
    I have not seen too many hands/threads posted by you so maybe before you start interviewing """coaches""" post some hands I'm sure this community is very capable of helping you climb up those stairs and reach a higher level of thinking at a poker table.
    I would be very careful and follow pokertime's advice if you decide to hire a live coach.
    Good luck.

  • Fiestagirl Posts: 40Subscriber
    Thank you.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I don't think getting 1 on 1 coaching is really worth it until you are a solid winner. Coaching can speed up your learning the basics but really I think you are just overpaying for stuff you can learn easily on this site. I don't think many players should consider coaching until they are at least a 5BB/100 winner at 5/10 (or 2/5 if that is the biggest game in your room.)

    Coaching is really meant for after you have learned the basics and have kinda plateaued where you know you could get better but are not exactly sure how or can't learn it from a training site. A coach is best used to find leaks you didn't know you had or answer questions that you can't figure out own your own.

    Also definitely pay up for a good coach. Better to play a few hundred an hour for a guy that will give you really valuable information vs getting a guy for cheap who will just tell you stuff you could find out on your own or possibly give you bad advice that actually makes your game worse.
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,311Pro
    stayinschool said:
    I don't think getting 1 on 1 coaching is really worth it until you are a solid winner.
    Completely disagree. (have conflict of interests of course!)

    One of the big problems losing players face are thought process related. Not everyone learns well from books and forums so they may be able to solve the problems as presented in a forum post - but not see the problem they need to solve when they are actually on the table. Its also not uncommon for people to have pre conceptions or theories that are hurting them and they need to understand why they are wrong and correct their thought processes before they can be profitable

    Also- probably only about 5% of players win. Lots and lots of people want coaching just so they can lose less. They want to feel competitive even if they know they are not winning players. Lots of crappy golfers get coaching - not just pros
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I guess it's fine to get a lesson or two to explain a few things but I would recommend getting regular coaching until you are a decent winner.
  • RecreationalRogerRecreationalRoger Posts: 789Subscriber
    I agree with the golf analogy. The best golf lessons you can take are when you first start out. Grip, stance, posture, alignment are huge - those arent really open for debate, they've been "solved". Kind of like having a rote pre flop strategy. Then a basic swing, which while "solved" is almost always impossible to do 100% correctly, is like post flop play. You need to understand basics of cbetting, value betting, bet-folding, bluffing, which you can get lost in the nuances very quickly. Having someone to guide you very early in poker or golf can get to a place where you can hold your own and enjoy it much more quickly than trying to figure it out on your own from scratch.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    I guess it's fine to get a lesson or two to explain a few things but I would recommend getting regular coaching until you are a decent winner.
    Stay in School.. Before I met Bart I hired Zach Freeman (a very very good local player) as my coach. I was far from a winning player at the time and I didnt know what I didnt know.. He gave me direction on what to look at and where I needed help.

    this is the single most important thing a coach can do. For day in day out coaching it can be too expensive but coaches can easily figure out areas of work needed that the student can work on by themselves. This is what I have done with the people who have asked me for coaching..

    I dont want to be a regular coach because the amount of work involved doesnt really make it worth it.. But I was happy to review some play and give some direction..
  • RecreationalRogerRecreationalRoger Posts: 789Subscriber
    Thats a real good point hammah. Same as golf, a really good coach needs to be able to identify each students particular biggest weakness and start with that, and be able to give you exercises away from the lesson to work on. A good tip is to make sure the coach asks you a lot of questions about your game vs talking about how they play so you get specific advice tailored to your needs.

    Hammah, what kind of questions did your poker coach ask to help him to focus on your specific needs? Might help OP to know what a good coach asks to help them find someone with similar traits.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    Problem is anyone good enough to coach can't charge enough to make it even close to worth it. I coach my friends some because I like them but instruction is only worth it to the coach if they enjoy it. Poker knowledge from top, well rounded players, at least in the first several lessons, can't really be priced fairly. Bad coaching is dangerous in the early stages of learning. A solid foundation of knowledge is the beginning of the road to success.

    Using a resource like this site is unbelievably cost effective. Bart especially gives both advice and formulaic guidance that really is sufficient to beat the heck out of 2/5 level games and to beat 5/10 solidly with experience. Alec Torelli making videos is also an amazing opportunity. He is as good a live player as there is in the world and is a gifted teacher. All the coaches and videos here are of good quality.

    The forums are a great resource too if read critically. Working with other players that are seriously trying to get better is also a great idea. Again, be careful and focused because most poker players don't try to get better systematically. But they often like to talk like they do.
  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 408Subscriber
    I think it depends on your situation. Are you new to poker? New to CLP? I would recommend getting the most out of CLP as you can before pursuing lessons. It's far more cost effective & there's less risk involved. There is plenty of material on here for most stakes & skill levels. I have found the curriculums to very helpful. I also believe there have been a few podcasts & videos where Bart reviews the play of students, so that might give you some insight into how the coaching experience might work for you.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I guess there is a distinction between regular coaching and a few lessons to help a beginner figure something out. If you are just starting I think getting coaching is ok if you are having trouble grasping the basics but only for a few lessons. After you get the basics down you should do the work on your own until you get to a point where you are a solid winner and really want to go to the next level.

    Again I want to stress the importance of paying up for a good coach, even for just learning the basics. Even today a lot of people have the basics wrong and saving a little money for someone to teach you stuff that you'll just have to unlearn somewhere down the line is definitely not what you want to be doing.
  • BartBart Posts: 6,072AdministratorLeadPro
    edited January 2017
    I pretty much point all people that contact me about private lessons to this site first, especially if they are not familiar with CLP. I feel that it would not be worth it to someone for what I charge if they don't have everything fully understood that is put forth in the curriculum here.

    On another note, I have mentioned this before, I give very few private lessons nowadays, because again for the most part, I don't think its worth it for the student, unless they are on an advanced level, and the market price for one on one coaching is far too LOW, for good coaching. But most likely 90%+ of one on one coaching isn't good, so the market price has been driven down.

    But I never understand how big winners in a game who can convey their thoughts clearly and are good teachers charge so low for coaching, at first--that is until they quickly realize how much they are undervaluing themselves. I mean, I've heard guys say that they charge their hourly. How on earth is that even close to being the correct price? I sometimes take on private students for 2.5-3x my hourly at $5-10, but only do it if its convenient for me, like I can do the lesson in my car on the phone driving to the casino. I've had guys want me to build lesson plans for them, daily email interactions etc, and while that would be very helpful to them from my perspective its not even close to being worth it especially when I try and give out my best stuff on CLP anyway.

    So thus you sort of have a chicken and the egg type of thing. If you find a coach that is charging an affordable rate for the low stakes it is highly likely that the coaching isn't worth it (with some exceptions of course). And the entry cost of truly good coaching scares most players away.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    RecreationalRoger said:
    Thats a real good point hammah. Same as golf, a really good coach needs to be able to identify each students particular biggest weakness and start with that, and be able to give you exercises away from the lesson to work on. A good tip is to make sure the coach asks you a lot of questions about your game vs talking about how they play so you get specific advice tailored to your needs.

    Hammah, what kind of questions did your poker coach ask to help him to focus on your specific needs? Might help OP to know what a good coach asks to help them find someone with similar traits.
    For the few students I have had I always start out by asking them to keep notes for a session. Very detailed notes on every hand they played.. stacks villains stacks. hh any reads.. I can learn alot of where someone is in their knowledge by this simple exercise..

    But as Bart described above its just not worth it for me at the rate I can get and its not really worth it for the student. But giving someone some direction where they need to concentrate their efforts is something pretty easy and then just send them here..

    Funny thing .. of the 5 or so students.. the ones that couldn't really do this simple exercise are the ones that need the most help. many just think that magically I can teach someone in a single 1 hour session what it takes to be a profitable poker player. I usually never hear back from them.. Nor do I chase them down either as its a lot of work, time I would much rather spend playing frankly..

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