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*** 2/5 Anybody heroing this?

ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
2/5 1K cap, Fri night game

V is a reg, I think he a winning player. We haven't played much vs each other, but I think he seen me before as well. No exactly sure what he thinks of me.

Game is good, there's a HUGE spot at the table.

V limps EP, HUGE spot limps, HERO raises to 30 with A J foled back to V he calls, spot folds.
HU to Flop (65): 8 3 5 - V check he x, HERO bets 40, V x/r to 115
I think there's no way in hell he ever has 2p, I guess sets of 3s and 5s are possible, but 8s he def open raises. I get a vibe that he FOS so I call
Turn (295): 2x - V best 130 - I still feel like he just trying to get me off a hand so - HERO calls
River (555): 6x - V bets 215
HERO?
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Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Clock

    This is tough.. If V is a thinking winning player what hands could he be cr you on the flop? and the cr was soooo small.. so at best for you he would have a combo draw.. but that means he had to have hit a pair by the river that he could be thinking he has to bluff..

    I am folding the turn. His sizing is not trying to get you off a hand it looks exactly like value to me..
  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 352SubscriberProfessional
    edited January 2017
    i think im folding. 67 is now beating u. is he good enough to still bluff with showdown value? not sure wut ur ahead of now. 9thh? 97hh? 9jhh? what does his open limping range look like?
  • fishcake Posts: 1,002Subscriber
    I think that you have to ask yourself what bluffs you even beat here? Even on the flop what does he even have? You have the Ah so that eliminates many of his semi bluff holdings. And if he limp called you pre oop with anything other than a pocket pair or high suited broadway then he's not much of a winning player, so you might want to re-evaluate that. It would seem to me that he almost always has a set here.
  • fishcake Posts: 1,002Subscriber
    Also, why are you even cbetting the flop if you're going to bluff catch a raise? You should be checking back if that's your plan.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    fishcake said:
    I think that you have to ask yourself what bluffs you even beat here? Even on the flop what does he even have? You have the Ah so that eliminates many of his semi bluff holdings. And if he limp called you pre oop with anything other than a pocket pair or high suited broadway then he's not much of a winning player, so you might want to re-evaluate that. It would seem to me that he almost always has a set here.

    I don't know the guy personally, but I think he's a winning player based on how he holds himself and plays for the most part. That's all I can say on that.

    Would set bet so tiny on turn? Doesn't seem right to me.
    fishcake said:
    Also, why are you even cbetting the flop if you're going to bluff catch a raise? You should be checking back if that's your plan.
    I think that's a great c-bet texture flop HU don't you?
    I didn't expect nor plan for his x/r....
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,243Member
    edited January 2017
    I actually think this a pretty good spot to check back with a pretty significant part of your range, especially if you're entire plan, as it seems, to bluff catch, you are holding the one card that makes sense to bluff with.
    you are rarely ahead of V's value range and even some of "his bluffs" might be ahead
    I would personally find a fold sooner than you did.

    Spoiler:
    guess you're just a poker prodigy if you called down
  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    If your read is he's FOS then call. You weren't really calling him down to catch up though you picked up a GS OTT. You seem to think A high is good. It's a really narrow part of his range. Reg limps calls KQ and then tries to triple barrel bluff you starting with a CR OTF? He has to be bluffing with a FD, overs or not have you out kicked so how often do we see that?
  • workinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    On the river, I'm giving up vs most opponents. Some guys I might hero down if I have some experience from how they play or my image, live tells, etc. What's a bit worrying is that he might be bluffing with 67 thinking his pair is no good. However, I tend to discount that for most guys as they would check back a rivered pair here hoping you have AK. honestly, if he is a regular, you might call given there is some chance you are ahead and also to learn what he has and how he plays.
  • TomSea Posts: 11Member
    It's an extraordinary situation when a call like this on the river is correct against someone's c/r range on that flop. Are you right approx. 27% of the time here? For this to happen, he has to c/r with a hand with little to no equity on the flop. I think AQ is the only better no pair hand he can have here, and it's unlikely given the pre flop and flop action. I don't think V does any of this with KQ, KJ, QJ, etc. which are the only hands you beat at this point. I fold to the c/r on the flop; as played, fold river.
  • OmegaPT1 Posts: 41Subscriber
    I fold to the c/r on the flop immediately and probably avoid any pot he partakes in the rest of the evening.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    Spoiler:

    So my initial gut reaction was - he FOS. I'm gonna call.
    Then I started thinking, maybe it's better to raise to like 600 just in case he turning some weird 1p into a bluff.
    Then I started thinking... would he really bet so small as a bluff...
    It does look like I have an OP and not folding. Did he hit some kind of str8 with a some kind of big combo draw on flop.. maybe 6 4 or 7 9 ?

    In the end I couldn't find my balls to pull the trigger and just folded :frown:
    He turned over QTo...

    Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut!!


  • TastesLikeBurning Posts: 429SubscriberProfessional
    Spoiler:
    this is value a ton and seeing as we block the nfd you'd run into made hands a ton. villain is probably NOT a winning player due to the l/c pre OOP with QTo. Flop peel is okay *i guess* as we have backdoor draws but generally I'm just giving credit and moving on. Who's spew is worse? His, but it is close :lol:
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,546Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    On the flop I would just give up. Very unlikely he is making a move with a whale between. But if you are going to bet this flop bet more. $40 into $65 looks scared. You have a mountain of barreling cards and position.

    As played....

    Assuming he is a typical reg I often see at 2/5 the flop XR and a weak turn bet heads up vs the preflop raiser usually some sort of draw. A set would bet more and 88+ would raise preflop. So you probably have to play this pot for the turn and river. There are lots of dynamics in this hand that can play out. You have position witch is HUGE in this situation. It's a HUGE hand. If you didn't have position I would give it up. But I have position so that makes the hand terrific.

    30s later after seeing results

    He smelled your flop bet as weak and busted a move. Side note you should take from this his weak bets are weak hands and the irony of it is he sees the same thing in others. His mistake was showing you the bluff. Now you have information which is power over his play.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    Fuzzypup said:
    On the flop I would just give up. Very unlikely he is making a move with a whale between. But if you are going to bet this flop bet more. $40 into $65 looks scared. You have a mountain of barreling cards and position.
    I think you misread my post - the whale got out of the way pre.
    Obviously it would play out very different with whale in between.
    Fuzzypup said:


    As played....

    Assuming he is a typical reg I often see at 2/5 the flop XR and a weak turn bet heads up vs the preflop raiser usually some sort of draw. A set would bet more and 88+ would raise preflop. So you probably have to play this pot for the turn and river. There are lots of dynamics in this hand that can play out. You have position witch is HUGE in this situation. It's a HUGE hand. If you didn't have position I would give it up. But I have position so that makes the hand terrific.

    30s later after seeing results

    He smelled your flop bet as weak and busted a move. Side note you should take from this his weak bets are weak hands and the irony of it is he sees the same thing in others. His mistake was showing you the bluff. Now you have information which is power over his play.
    I agree.
    I think maybe it was an "ego play" from the jump - hence the showing at the end...who knows...

  • Jacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    What could his UTG limp/call range be? I'd guess small pairs and maybe SC. He could have flopped a combo draw on the flop and turn bricks but then river could fall into what he's repping. He'd have to have complete air here for 3 streets for you to be good. Like limping T9 and deciding to turn it into a bluff. Seems narrow to want to call down with AJ here.
    I do think calling the flop is fine for the reasons you think. And then even the turn because 2 changes nothing and he's pretty much repping a draw with his sizing. But on the river I find it difficult to follow through with a call not knowing this guy's tendencies. After seeing this hand, just take note that he's willing to follow through with bluffs when you might be weak. Allow him to try to push you around when you pick up a hand.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I wouldn't bet flop.

    I think heroing is pretty ambitious. We have so many better hands, especially hands without the Ah and hands that don't run the risk of actually lose to some bluffs.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    I wouldn't bet flop.

    I think heroing is pretty ambitious. We have so many better hands, especially hands without the Ah and hands that don't run the risk of actually lose to some bluffs.
    That's why we have to raise! :lol:
  • Jacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    Well if this guy is going to check/raise flop with nothing, you actually want to be betting flop to induce a raise with worse for value with AJ. You'll just have to be sure to call the river in the future. But preferably we'd pick some stronger hands for doing this.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    you consider calling with pretty much the single worst hand you have in that spot. you even block a big part of his bluffing range.
    I would fold the flop and don't think about it twice. you have every overpair, maybe even all sets, few combos tp, few combos 2pair (by the river) and few straights.

  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Thehammah said:
    Clock

    This is tough.. If V is a thinking winning player what hands could he be cr you on the flop? and the cr was soooo small.. so at best for you he would have a combo draw.. but that means he had to have hit a pair by the river that he could be thinking he has to bluff..

    I am folding the turn. His sizing is not trying to get you off a hand it looks exactly like value to me..
    which combo draws do we beat?
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