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1/2 Do I shove against this maniac????? Did I get angled???

The villain is early 20s and on MAJOR TILT. Been to ATM several times. At this point he has been opening every hand to $17 and calling down with anything for about an orbit.
$250 effective
Two limpers.
V on CO makes it $17.
BTN calls -- another loose and sticky young player.
I have A Q in BB and elect to call. I considered 3-betting against V's wide range and BTN stickiness, but decided against it -- both are loose and sticky and probably I would not lose them and I might have been able to get it allin against CO and possibly BTN with dominating range, so ...
But I just called.
A Q 4
I lead for $35
V calls and BTN folds.
Turn is 7
I am ready to get it allin and grab a stack of $100 and my arm is over the felt about to drop when he yells "I CALL"
I hesitate -- seemed like Senor Tilty could definitely have every combo in the deck. I only drop $15. Why?? At that point I really believed he could have flopped the flush. I half-expected him to shove, but he just laughed and called.
Was I angled successfully?
Do you shove the Turn here as played? Do you shove without the weird angle?
[River was brick 2:c: . I checked thinking that Tilty would go for a River bluff if he missed and bet a worse two-pair. He bet only $30. I considered raising, but just called. He had K T ]


  • HeyWayne Posts: 20Subscriber
    I don't think he was angling you, I think he was trying to call your $100. Honestly, if your intention was to bet $100 and you changed it to $15, I think you are the one who was doing the angling.
  • jebez Posts: 21Subscriber
    PreFlop: If the villain is super tilty then I think three betting would be fine. I would assume he is calling your three bet pretty wide and you will more than likely get it heads up with the tilted guy. AQ can win a lot more when it doesn't improve heads up rather than 3+ ways. You will have to check fold more often when out of position vs two players. For those reasons I like three betting preflop.

    Flop: As played preflop, I like your lead on the turn. Lots that you can get called by. When thinking about what you can get called by, I think many of those hands might call for $45 or $50 on the flop if they are calling for $35.

    Turn: I think when he does the insta-call before your chips hit the felt that you are ahead almost 100% of the time. If he had flopped a flush I don't think he is insta-calling without even a second of thought. I am dropping the entire $100 stack out there and shoving all non heart rivers.

    River: The way he called on the turn leads me to believe he either has a made hand as bad as a single paired Ace, or possibly two pair. The other hand would be the naked K of hearts. I don't think he ever really has a flush here. After betting $100 on the turn and him calling the pot would be about $325 heading to the river and he would have about $100 left in his stack. He is probably not folding his made hands for $100 at the end. If the river is a heart that would really suck and I think we would be forced to check and hope he checks back his made hands that we beat. If he ships his last $100 in on a heart river after we check the pot would be $425 and $100 to call. Getting about 4.2:1 you need to be good about 1 out of 5. If you think his spaz factor equates to being good 20% of the time I guess you could possibly check call at the end if a heart comes? I am shipping all non hearts though on the river.
  • Jacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    You want him to call given his image! Why downsize your bet just because he says call? It's a value bet, after all. Trust your play. Sounds like you second-guessed yourself. He's just tilting and wants to get the money in ASAP. He could have the flush but most likely not if he's playing every hand and calling down to the river.
  • ohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    3bet preflop. 3 x 17 is 51, so something like 70 would be a good size.

    As played, typically the faster a player calls, the more likely it's a draw. If the player had a nutted hand or hearts, they usually want to think about it a little bit. With a draw, 95% of the player pool only know how to play them by calling.

    On the river, it's hard to say what to do as you psyched yourself out and took a non standard line. Just flat imo, worse is very rarely calling.
  • Jacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    You can compare this read to the hand titled "Set on a monotone board". In that hand V thinks for 5 seconds, asks how much, then calls. He likely flopped the flush and is slow playing. On the turn he considers his options of "should I raise for value, or continue trapping? How much did he bet?"
    In this hand the villain didn't consider anything. He has the nut draw and just isn't folding. Big difference in tells.
  • TaintBDTaintBD Posts: 244Subscriber
    Great comments -- appreciated. Yes I agree I should have 3bet preflop. Yes I agree I psyched myself out and let myself play scared instead of smart. CRAP.
    Good point -- my action IS more like an angle. CRAP again.
    Wish I had this one back!
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber

    If villain is tilty you need to 3 bet BIG.. get it in with him with the likely best hand.. DONT give others free shot to realize their equity..

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Mandatory 3 bet preflop. I 3 bet this in this spot against most people anyway let along a tilty station.

    Think the best thing to do in these spots is try and pretend like nothing is said and try and make the best play. Unless you are really sure what it means
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