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AK suited in the bb against a total nit

OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
Lately I have tighten my range against this certain nitty asian player. He always shows down a premium starting hand. I'm not sure if he has noticed that or is even considering that in his thoughts. Since changing my style against I have barley played a hand with him let alone a big pot.

My perceived image as a guess would be. Aggressive because I prefer to play my hands as a raise, defiantly a winning player and one of the better players in this player pool. Capable of bluffing but will very rarely be seen bluffing once the pot gets really big.

$5/5 game capped at $700 buyin.
Hero has $2.5-$3k stack
Villain has a $950 stack

Question is how would you play this hand on every street, especially the turn.

Pre flop
V opens mid pos to $25
Co and button call
Sb folds
Bb Hero has AK hero opts to call given how tight the V is. I did briefly consider folding, but I can't ever see this an option in this spot.

Flop
10 8 4
Hero leads $55 (I could do this with tp, sets, draws.) never not have a hand. What are others thoughts?
V quickly raises to $200 (very confident most of the time he has an over pair in this spot)
Field players fold
H calls (I thought about raising, but that would defiantly look like a big draw)

Pot $505
Turn J
Hero moves all in and it's now $725 for the V to call.

What's the best way for Hero to play this turn?
In not sure if the V will bet 100% of turns but if he bets I think it would be around $300.


Tagged:

Comments

  • What was your goal when you led the flop?
  • OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
    It wasn't to build a pot. I was thinking he could have AK himself a small percent of the time and he will be checking it around if he did, since he missed the flop. Also that flop could hit my closing the action calling range. Suited connectors like J 10 or 1 gap connectors like 10 8. I'm typing this and I'm thinking there are more possibilities of draws in this donk lead.
  • ijustcameforthefreecookies Posts: 101Subscriber
    edited February 2017
    If he checks around with AK, that's fine.

    I really don't like a donk here, you open yourself to being raised so often. Also will get flatted a lot with 3behind committing yourself to barrel multiple turns without knowing where you're at.

    I would always check this flop, if a call or two you can either over call to hopefully get overflush someone( sucks you have the K), or alternatively squeeze with AK - makes it harder for PFR to call since 2 people to act behind. You look strong and will normally take the pot down here. If you get called or retained by PFR you have good equity vs all overpairs with your Fd, bd straight draw and sometimes overcards.

    If CO/BTN ship after you XR it would be up to you and your reads on them if they are doing this with sets (whether you're calling off or not).

    Of all options I think donking flop is worst option IMO.


    Why jam turn after calling preflop raise? Your hand looks exactly like draws and TP. I don't think villain is folding any of their value hands here if they are any good. TT/JJ haves sets. Your equity is eh vs QQ and not looking good vs KK and AA.
    I would either XR here (representing set, two pair now, some made straights) or XC

    Need to rethink your line completely and the story you're telling.

    How would you play TT or 44 here?
    Why are you betting on each street - what hands call and what fold- what are you trying to achieve on each street and does the story you're telling match this.
    by 1Pinky
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,450Subscriber
    edited February 2017
    X the flop you have relative position. As played your story doesn't read right. It is saying this....

    I have 97s or Q9s not hearts. What your hand does look like is JhXh.

    And if he is the type of nit who doesn't fold and isn't afraid of money...... he isn't folding his overpair. He is also getting roughly 2:1 in his mind so he has to call.

    I don't play 5/10 but I have played many 5/10 regs who play 2/5 waiting. Nits generally don't like to fold their rare hands.
  • brick Posts: 127Subscriber
    edited February 2017
    Calling PF seems close.
    I tend to raise in these spots to keep my image somewhat "loose" in order to get bigger bets on later streets. But this is certainly not bad against a tight range OOP.

    I like the flop lead as long as it's balanced with some strong hands like sets. We have equity against strong hands, and we immediately charge weak hands. Unless you are nearly 100% sure LP will bet, I don't want to give free cards on this board. I don't mind money going in the pot.

    I'm not convinced AA-JJ will raise this flop if he's such a tight player.
  • OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
    ijustcameforthefreecookies said:


    How would you play TT or 44 here?
    Why are you betting on each street - what hands call and what fold- what are you trying to achieve on each street and does the story you're telling match this.
    I will sometimes play a set that way just flatting the raise. The reason is I wouldn't want him to fold out his over pairs if I raised or I would want to see a safe turn, more likely a non heart turn before I put the rest in.

  • OMGitsWorm said:
    ijustcameforthefreecookies said:


    How would you play TT or 44 here?
    Why are you betting on each street - what hands call and what fold- what are you trying to achieve on each street and does the story you're telling match this.
    I will sometimes play a set that way just flatting the raise. The reason is I wouldn't want him to fold out his over pairs if I raised or I would want to see a safe turn, more likely a non heart turn before I put the rest in.

    Fair enough.

    If I am villain, only hand I am worried about is exactly JT, but I feel there would be too many draws in your range to fold any of my overpairs/AT (KT is close).

    If you believe villain can't handread and are just trying to scare him out with a big bet, your turn all in is maximising your fold equity. I really prefer a flop XR or flop call turn XR opposed to a donk. Realistically your hand is a semi bluff - you have 46-49% equity to win the hand OTF. By increasing fold equity you can turn this to your favour... but it needs to be against players who fold over pairs (if they don't, you have no fold equity are just gambling everytime).

    A base rule is you should never try to bluff people off the top of their range (especially live).
    by 1Pinky
  • OMGitsWorm Posts: 272SubscriberProfessional
    I didn't know the exact percentages during the hand but I know a over pair on that board texture you don't always feel confident.
    I gave the hero QQ-AA
    And my self AK KQ suited J 10 and suited 9 7 and all possible sets. I feel these combinations are the only hands I'm shoving with. Range v range I'm around 72% on the turn. I don't think it was 100% incorrect play I just think I took the wrong line and against the wrong player. It surprising how many nitty players and social players can't fold an over pair. Buts that's how you end up getting paid off too in big pots. It's always a funny feeling after you lose a big pot bluffing should you take it out of your game or just learn from it that your story didn't make sense or it was the wrong player to try and get to fold a over pair.

    I'm still sitting on the fence about this hand. I do know how I'm playing a monster against him thou. And I should get paid
  • FreeBrady Posts: 18Member
    1. AKs is way too strong of a hand to not raise here, especially when your OOP to the field, and there is dead $. Even if you assign a tight (1010+/AQs+) range to villian. It's just not going to play well enough post OOP 4 way.

    2. I'm really not trying to be insulting here...but folding AKs, closing the action, vs a single raise and 2 flatters....is a thought that should never, ever, enter your brain. I point this out only because if this crosses your mind in this spot...then its very likely that you are making some very large errors in other spots that are much closer.

    3. As far as postflop goes...i don't like the flop donk, at all. First, the one silver lining of flatting preflop is the great relative position we are in post. We just took that away. When we donk here, the villian with overpair is always going to cap us off at a flush draw/str8 draw/combo draw/top pair looking to control. And most times, will bomb to protect.... as he should. Your hand is pretty much what it looks like, and you let villian play correct. Notice you also let villian shut out the dead money behind him. The ideal play here is to check....the villian cb $75-$100...one or both of the pf flatters call....then you CR. What's your range look like now? Certainly not just top pair, much 2p and sets in there now. The nit might be suspicious of a combo draw...but most likely will talk himself into you having a set (bc that's what nits do)...and your fold equity vs his JJ-AA just skyrocketed. If this fails....and he goes with his overpair...your a small *favorite* against JJ/QQ....12 outs vs KK....9 outs vs AA. Notice his combos of AA/KK are reduced to a total of 6 when you have AK. This is a tailor made CR spot here in every sense of the word. It's not even like you have a set and is a disaster when it checks through OTF. If the spot here in general wasn't perfect enough for the CR play...even the stack depths accommodate. Flop 100...villian cb 75...one call...pot is 250....you make it 260-330....with a very healthy, near pot sized bet left for the turn to fully maximize fold equity....and that's when you don't hit.

    4. AS PLAYED....your hand strength still centers around fold equity...and you will lose half your hands equity on the turn when you don't hit. When you just flat, your hand is face up when you hit...and if villian isn't a moron...will price you out on the turn when you don't hit and find a fold when you do (we dont like this). There are still twice as many combos of JJ and QQ vs KK/AA in his range. Its close for me deciding whether to click it back to 380-400 ish....or shoving....but i probably lean towards a click back since a shove will let villian talk himself into us having a combo draw more often....and we still have $500+ left for turn shove after click back. But i am def raising back here in hopes of maximizing our fold equity.
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