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$5-$5 750bb deep w KK

BartBart Posts: 5,993AdministratorLeadPro
edited April 2017 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Respond with spoilers in your posts please! Highlight the text and click on the ? icon in the bar right above this.

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So last night I decided to go to Hustler for the first time in 10 years as the games at Commerce were pretty shitty.

Its 1am and I have recently moved to a new table after my table broke. Neutral image, no one knows who I am except @thehammah who is sitting to my left.

V1 is mid 30s Asian guy, unknown to me. I assume there isn't anything of extreme note as @thehammah didn't mention him in her primer text to me about this particular lineup at the table. V2 also recently had just moved to the game as well and sits with $300. V1 and I are $3500 effective at $5-$5, $1000 cap.

V1 opens UTG to $20, two calls in the field, both with about $500 and Hero 3 bets! to $90 from the CO w K K. Button and sb both fold and UTG snap calls out of turn. V2 in the BB says, "Hold on," and 4 bets to $200 leaving himself with $100 left. Now V1, in UTG 5 bets to $500. Hero?


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Spoiler:
Hero 6 bets to $1000, UTG1 snap calls. FLOP 8 5 3

UTG checks, Hero?


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Spoiler:

Hero checks back.. TURN: 3 UTG checks, Hero??


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Spoiler:
Hero checks back again. RIVER Q UTG bets $700.. HERO???


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Comments

  • BlackBoxEquity Posts: 165Subscriber
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler:
    You lose to AA, QQ, AKcc. Is he really betting that small as a bluff with any of the other AK in his range? Doubtful. You push with the one remaining combo of KK and only hand you beat is JJ, which I think continues checking the river 90% of time. With the SPR close to 1 on the flop, I'm just getting it in after I 6bet pre (why else are you 6-betting)?

    As played, I think you can fold and save yourself $700. Don't think you are good the 20% of time you need to be and don't think he's folding a flush to a raise that's repping a boat. I guess you may be able to get AA to fold, but he is pretty committed with his bet.


  • Rysher8 Posts: 234Subscriber
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler:
    Yeah @bart why are you playing a pot control line after 6 betting to $1,000 preflop and getting a ragged board? Are you trying to induce him to bet specifically JJ-QQ on the turn?

    P.S. I'm pretty ambivalent about whether to call river. My guess is he shows up with your same hand a lot.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler:
    His range is I'm assuming preflop is QQ+, AKs

    Seems like the bigger issue is if we should raise or fold river cause it seems highly unlikely he's turning AK into a bluff sinve we do got 2 Ks also. All his combos drop for AK and he loses some QQ hands. Leaves AA really which plays along with preflop action. I'm sure if we did the combo work out AA (6), KK (1), QQ (3), AKs (1) it doesn't even look close unless I'm missing something. If we give him AKo (8) it makes it look better but a stretch to say.

    Bart I wouldn't try to get dudes to fold OPs here since it's a very tight window, QQ or AKcc only, but if there ever was a time to put all the pressure on someone to fold a 1 pair hand this is it. We also chop with KK This has to be a spot where level 2 thinkers would fold but level 1 thinkers will call.

    If he has JJ god bless him.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler:
    What does the 6! accomplish preflop? We think an unknown rec has a raise UTG/5! range of QQ/AK? I'm skeptical & don't see much good reason to think anyone readless has a 5! range in a multiway situation worse than KK. I just fold pre vs what looks like KK+ vs a likely ABC rec, or flat if I actually think QQ/AK 5! here. Especially this deep, being wrong in what seem to be thin +EV spot at best is very costly.

    Post flop I can see logic of checking flop to rep missed AK & have him overvalue QQ ott + otr for remaining stacks on bricks when we bet, but then why no bet on turn? Seems like preflop & postflop lines are contradicting eachother here.

    River -- fold in theory if we actually put him on QQ/AK pre (& we think there's a trivial chance he turns AK into a bluff in a dry all in situation). But I call in the moment based on the old "under repped" argument.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    btw @bart you do realize you always wear a Crush Live Poker sweatshirt right? also its looking a bit ragety maybe a new one is in order? or is that a level? worn out sweatshirt and folks can't possibly think you are doing well enough to buy a nice hoodie??? :wink:
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    So Yeah the guy with the big stack I had never played with before.. No regs and no one playing anything that I needed to tell you about..
  • BartBart Posts: 5,993AdministratorLeadPro
    Thehammah said:
    btw @bart you do realize you always wear a Crush Live Poker sweatshirt right? also its looking a bit ragety maybe a new one is in order? or is that a level? worn out sweatshirt and folks can't possibly think you are doing well enough to buy a nice hoodie??? :wink:
    worn out? Ive worn it like 4 times
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Bart said:
    Thehammah said:
    btw @bart you do realize you always wear a Crush Live Poker sweatshirt right? also its looking a bit ragety maybe a new one is in order? or is that a level? worn out sweatshirt and folks can't possibly think you are doing well enough to buy a nice hoodie??? :wink:
    worn out? Ive worn it like 4 times
    seriously? how is that when I always see you wearing one.. #hammahlevel
  • BartBart Posts: 5,993AdministratorLeadPro
    Thehammah said:
    Bart said:
    Thehammah said:
    btw @bart you do realize you always wear a Crush Live Poker sweatshirt right? also its looking a bit ragety maybe a new one is in order? or is that a level? worn out sweatshirt and folks can't possibly think you are doing well enough to buy a nice hoodie??? :wink:
    worn out? Ive worn it like 4 times
    seriously? how is that when I always see you wearing one.. #hammahlevel
    I have 3 -4 in rotation
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Spoiler:
    lol! I would usually just call the 5b but him snapcalling out of turn is very strange. AK/QQ/JJ make the most sense. he doesn't want to 4b vs you but he thinks he can get it in good vs shorty and get you to fold your equity.

    AP, I like checking back flop. he has at best 3 outs and MAYBE he stabs AK thinking you have the same hand. turn I would bet almost always and hope he will go broke with QQ. SPR is only little over 1.

    River is the worst card in the deck but we can't fold. there is a possibility he bluffs AK or who knows, maybe he has AQs in his range? I admit it's unlikely but there is a good chance he will bet small with QQ OTT.

    call river but I would almost always bet the turn. 800 or so and shove non Q river (A is close, very hard to get value ..)
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    why the hack do you guys always want to turn close to top of the range into a bluff. in every thread at least one or two people suggest raising whatever 3rd nuts when it's about to call or fold.... show me the guy who folds AA or A K lol³
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    ^^^
    I considered it but went against it.
  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 352SubscriberProfessional
    Spoiler:
    at first I hated the 6bet, then I reread and noticed his snap call before the 4ber. so I like. I think his range is almost always qq, ak. I would probably bet turn to try to get money in on river and stack qq. as played I would fold, as I doubt he is ever doing this with ak without clubs as most of the pot is still a protected side pot
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,132Subscriber
    Spoiler:

    I agree that with that weird pre flop action AA are super unlikely.
    So why not bet flop tiny?
    If we check back flop, certainly would bet turn.

    River is ugly :cry:
    We getting more than 4:1 Pot is ~3K - 700 to call, but what could he betting now that we beating?
    JJ as a block bet... I dunno... seems unlikely, cause pot is GIGANTIC for $1K cap game. I wouldn't expect it.

    He has 3 value combos of QQ and let's say 1 of KK (we chop) and 1 A K we have to find some bluffs and/or button clicking/block betting combos to be getting the right price even with those odds.
    I don't think it's quite there.
    I think AQ folds pre facing a fucking $1,000 6bet in 5/5 game :eek:




  • BKismBKism Posts: 203SubscriberProfessional
    Spoiler:
    I flat. I think that this 5! represents a wider range of hands than it would be heads up. He could be trying to isolate the 4! With TT+, AQs, AK. Let's give him all AA's -6, 1 KK, 4 QQ, 3 JJ, 1.5 TT, 6 AK, and 1 AQ. Against that range with some wuick dirty equity in the head we are about 67%. Even if I widened his range too much, we cannot be that bad. If we 6! and he continues our equity vs. that range is fairing quite poorly. The larger sizing is effective in cutting down our set mining odds, if he does have AA. I call and evaluate on the flop.
  • BKismBKism Posts: 203SubscriberProfessional
    Spoiler:
    I do not like the 6! It gives him proper odds to continue with all pairs and opens us up to a shove, which puts us in a terrible spot. We are getting money in as a favorite according to my range analysis and we the small sizing keeps the entire range in there, so I see your reasoning, Bart.

    We do not need to bet the flop to get all the money in. Does our guy look like he is ready to stack off with QQ? I check and bet 1K turn and 1.5K River on all non A runouts. The downside to my play is a bad card on the turn A or Q. OK, now lets click the spoiler and see how I disagree with you.

    BTW, this is an awesome way to do hands. I would love to steal this for my next post, but I do not get your traffic to make it effective.
  • BKismBKism Posts: 203SubscriberProfessional
    Spoiler:
    We are in agreement on the flop. Here comes 1K, time to stack the curious. Let's hope his inner feline is aroused by our flop check.
  • BKismBKism Posts: 203SubscriberProfessional
    Spoiler:
    Why check back the turn? Our range is ahead. He has more overpairs in his range, according to my analysis, than he does AA's. Let's get some money. This is a horrible River Q was a large part of his range. The pot is too big to raise fold. I think a raise over represents with the flush and the Q coming in. I do think he has less QQ with a second check on the turn. I call.
  • Rysher8 Posts: 234Subscriber
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler:
    I'm having a very, very difficult time putting opponent on any AA here. I mean we've all seen AA flat to a preflop raise before. It's not the usual play, but it's fairly common. We've also seen AA flat to a 3bet, though it's much more rare. However, I don't think I've ever seen AA flat to a 4bet rather than shove, at least not when the hand was shown down. Now we've got a guy $3,000 deep at 5/5 flatting a 6 bet?! In poker anything is possible. Maybe he's that amazing where he's going to try trapping a 6bet into the pot that he thinks will stack off. However, I think we're looking at significantly less than 1%.

    Approach it from the villain's perspective. We have the other monster stack at the table 5betting us and committing $1,000 preflop in a 5/5 game. If we're sitting on AA, is there anyone on here who wouldn't be shoving in stacks like a dog in heat?
  • Idlecaillou Posts: 121Subscriber
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler:
    hi testing
    Spoiler:
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