East Coast vs West Coast Triple Barrel (Podcast 5-2-17)

Bart

SO a lot of you here think LA games are soft or that when I talk about getting maximum value with certain holdings that "I'm nuts" because no one in their player pool would call off with just top pair.

So I have this hand that I played last night at $5-$10, however the villain in the hand is a typical $5-$5 player but appears to be slightly scared money. He bought in for $500 and his stack is up to $1500. Hero covers.

UTG limps, V1 limps UTG1. Hero raises to $60 with 5♣ 5♦ as there is a dead poster in the CO. All folded back to V1 who calls.

FLOP: K♥ 8♦ 2♥

Check, Hero bets $70, V1 calls.

TURN: A♠

Check, Hero bets $185, V1 calls.

RIVER: J♠

V1 checks..

Let's assume that villain never has a strong hand here (AK+) because of preflop and turn play. How often are you non LAers triple barreling this river? How often are you LA 5-5 players, especially at $500 capped games at Commerce triple barreling this river?

Rocketman74

Betting the flop is fine as you can fold out V1's equity share of the pot (AKA: his over cards to your fives) and you get value from his flush draws. If V1 calls, his likely holdings are draws and sticky/weak made hands (with the odd set.)

The turn is a good barrel card for you as it hits your range harder than his and allows you to apply more pressure to V1. Once he calls his range is narrowed down to a few sticky pairs that are hanging on for dear life and some flush draws (that may have just made top pair.)

The river is a fine card to unload the clip on as again it hits your range harder than his. Also, he really can't have many strong hands here (especially after he checked 3x and limp called pre) AND you did say he appears to be scared money.

...by the title of this thread (and the first couple of lines) I guess you got called down light.

beauregard

Bart said:

UTG limps, V1 limps UTG1. Hero raises to $60 with 5♣ 5♦ as there is a dead poster in the CO. All folded back to V1 who calls.

FLOP: K♥ 8♦ 2♥

Check, Hero bets $70, V1 calls.

TURN: A♠

Check, Hero bets $185, V1 calls.

RIVER: J♠

V1 checks..

Let's assume that villain never has a strong hand here (AK+) because of preflop and turn play. How often are you non LAers triple barreling this river? How often are you LA 5-5 players, especially at $500 capped games at Commerce triple barreling this river?

Flop - pot is 135-ish
Turn - pot is 275-ish
River - pot is 645-ish

In terms of "real" money - the turn bet is the most scariest for "scared money" players. I can't speak for East coast or West coast games - but in the South, a dude calling the turn, ain't folding most river.

Let's look at ranges... on the flop, either V has a big K or a♥ draw... most likely a nutted FD since he's limping from UTG+1
So on the turn - KX ain't folding and now A♥ X× ain't folding.

The flop has no other draws... although I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the V could have Q♥ T♥!!!!! (yeah, right :lol:)

Unless Hero has a uber aggressive image with a tendency to barrel with no regard to board texture, V should be folding all 8's (except 8♥ X♥) by the turn. Although he may also have hands like Q♥ J♥ or J♥ T♥
A river bet would fold out all heart draws that don't have an Ace in them.

As played - Hero is representing a very narrow range of hands... AA, KK & AK - or air.... making a triple barrel a very polarizing bet.

In the South... if V got to the river - your 55 is toast.
Unless you have a live read that he'll fold KX and J♥ X♥ and 8♥ X♥ to a triple barrel, betting river is spew.

MonadPrime

Not bluffing this river. Literally nothing scary came in & villain already seemed defiant in the face of the A on the turn. I play in the Pacific North West -- people trend toward the spewy/sticky side @ all stakes.

AJoff

Don't you beat all the obvious hands villain folds? It seems like you are specifically targeting 8X with a bluff. This doesn't really answer your question, but I would value bet with any AX (especially holdings with the Ah) that made it to the river this way.

neverlearn2

seems like he has a ton of SDV hands, wow mainly 1pr, which i think is really weighted down to the A2-A5 type hands more then AT-AK.

hmmmm....idk i think if Bart shoves we get all 1 pair hands to fold and thats what he mainly has it seems. Not sure what else gets to the river, unless he was getting sticky with KJ.

Im gonna say shove. 730 pot, we got 1185 left. we cant bet anything less IMO.

HareRee

What position are we're you in? We definitely can have all the sets here except maybe bottom set. If we are in late position we can have all sets and KJ+

I agree his range is capped at AJ on this river. In my games (East coast) I generally not trying to get players to fold top pair on the river and I don't see players calling twice with middle pairs. I think I would use my cards to decide how often to bluff this river. Like if I have the 5 of hearts I'd check this river and if I don't I'd be more likely to bluff this river.

Also, I prefer taking a smaller sizing on a river bluff since we don't need to represent much to get a fold and we can have a wide value range in this spot. I think against tougher opponents I would be more inclined to size up on my bluffs.
I go back and forth on the sizing..