Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

The turn minraise aberration

FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,298Subscriber
Had an blah hand yesterday where in a vacuum it would be a fold. But because of different factors I saw his turn min-raise at a "I want a cheap showdown" instead of "I have a big hand".

So when is a turn raise from a moderately bad player the nuts and when is it a "I want a cheap showdown"

Comments

  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited June 2017
    Fuzzypup said:
    Had an blah hand yesterday where in a vacuum it would be a fold. But because of different factors I saw his turn min-raise at a "I want a cheap showdown" instead of "I have a big hand".

    So when is a turn raise from a moderately bad player the nuts and when is it a "I want a cheap showdown"
    *Edit* Thought question was about the flop -- my mistake. Cut.
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    It's been my experience that a min-raise OTF is often indicative of TP decent but not a great kicker while turn min-raises tend to be strong hands (but that is just an observation and others may have seen something different.)
  • pokertime Posts: 2,180Subscriber
    Rocketman74 said:
    It's been my experience that a min-raise OTF is often indicative of TP decent but not a great kicker while turn min-raises tend to be strong hands (but that is just an observation and others may have seen something different.)
    I would agree with this in general. The main way it can still be TP OTT is if the turn is a big card that bring in a second load of SD/FD. I.E. 2 FD and 2 SD are now out there. If TP is putting you square on draw/overs he's going to charge to see the river.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,827Subscriber
    When the turn brings a draw in and it's a rec player, nuts.

    When turn brings in another draw or connects and player is good the. It's more like a draw
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    When the turn brings a draw in and it's a rec player, nuts.

    When turn brings in another draw or connects and player is good the. It's more like a draw
    Good players are check/raising minimum on turn when they pick up equity as their standard now? Not sure that's true -- even if how you're ranging is correct when facing x/r aggression on turn generally (aka for bigger sizing). If anyone is "good" I think they're more likely to be min-raising turn in position as a freeze play w/ a medium/big TP hand, and x/r minimum OOP usually with the nuts (I mean, a minimum raise should have almost no fold equity against the general player pool, so unless he's leveling us hard we shouldn't expect him/her to be light here ever. Larger sizing carries fold equity and so we can include more semi-bluffs).
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,827Subscriber
    Op just said a min raise on turn. Not a c/r

    I'm trying to see very general spots we get into.

    Basjcally thinking that players min raise turn when they feel they got a decent lead in the hand but is very vulnerable ie tptk, bottom 2, hands like sets and straights with higher made draws on the board.

    But to add to that are good players that value brt thin enough to get value from back door draws and other turn cards that bring I'm equity

  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    Op just said a min raise on turn. Not a c/r

    I'm trying to see very general spots we get into.

    Basjcally thinking that players min raise turn when they feel they got a decent lead in the hand but is very vulnerable ie tptk, bottom 2, hands like sets and straights with higher made draws on the board.

    But to add to that are good players that value brt thin enough to get value from back door draws and other turn cards that bring I'm equity

    To be fair the OP is not completely clear -- I assumed he was asking about either/or scenario (IP & OOP).
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,827Subscriber
    Yea it was a vague question.

    But still think he is asking for a generalized idea here.

  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    NEVERLEARN2 said:


    But still think he is asking for a generalized idea here.

    I just think he's tilted.. :???:
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,298Subscriber
    edited June 2017
    Well consider many types of turns, a non-competent player, and the opponent's position for example....

    Hero raised UTG preflop got 3 callers
    FLOP 9 5 3 Hero bets, Call, Fold, Fold board the rest fold.
    TURN 3 Hero bets, gets min-raised by a player who never has a 3 in this spot.

    vs

    Hero raised UTG preflop got 3 callers
    FLOP 9 6 2 Hero bets, Fold, Fold, Call board the rest fold.
    TURN 2 Hero bets, gets min-raised by a player who never has a 2 in this spot.

    vs

    Hero raised UTG preflop got 3 callers
    FLOP J 6 2 Hero bets, Fold, Fold, Call board the rest fold.
    TURN 2 Hero bets, gets min-raised by a player who never has a 2 in this spot.

    vs

    Hero raised UTG preflop got 3 callers
    FLOP J 8 6 Hero bets, Fold, Fold, Call board the rest fold.
    TURN 3 Hero bets, gets min-raised by a player.

    Or if the V calls 1st then 2 folds.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    Think you have to see the river on most of these, but forced to x/f alot to a good sized river bet.
Sign In or Register to comment.