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$2-5 Can I Bluff Catch?

$2-5 $1,000eff. Both villains are good winning regs. The Villain and I go over hands together and share spots so we have a little leveling history. He'll bluff at a higher frequency than an ABC reg and is not afraid to apply pressure to attack a weak range.

Folds to me and I open with Q Q $20 in MP. Villain calls directly to my right and the other reg calls in the CO.

Flop (65) K 7 3

I check. V checks. V2 checks. All check relatively quickly not much pacing.

Turn (65) 4

I check again. V bets $40 V2 folds I call.

River (145) K

I check. V bets $300 with black chips relatively quickly.

I know he knows I most likely do not have a K. I know that it's not terribly likely he has a King either. Let's say he has a K here, I think if he's going for this sizing he's going to think longer than 5 seconds. Same with full houses. Same with flushes. I'm not saying he wouldn't blast the pot with a value hand but I'm thinking bet pacing is a red flag.

In a vacuum, because I don't block anything, do we give up here? If we do, what hands can I put in my calling bucket against this guy?

Comments

  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,804Subscriber
    Fold. So many hands we lose with. I get he is polarized here but seems like if he's bluffing he would understand he doesn't need to size his bet that big to get a fold here. You played your hand very weak.

    Seems like a value bet more trying to get value from whateve range you decided to check call turn with.

    I would call with flushes and Boats and boats for sure. And AK and maybe KQ
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    Due to card removal he might have about eight combos of bluffs that make sense to be in his hand (and maybe a few that don't.) - Call it 10 combos

    You'd figure he'd often 3b pre with AK, not call with all his KQo or KJo combos and fold most other kings (except KTs.) That said, he has all the boats and more than a dozen flopped flushes. That's like 40 or so hands.

    His overbet is super suspicious (especially with the pacing and your history) BUT he just doesn't have enough air to overcome the disparity in his range.
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    I would call with flushes and Boats and boats for sure. And AK and maybe KQ
    This calling range seems obvious (except that you don't end up here with those hands very often.) Unfortunately, there aren't a ton of hands you can add to your calling range that over come the pot odds (even if he does appear to be FOS.) You could add KJo, KTs and K9s (but again, given your actions to this point, they aren't often in your hand.)
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,804Subscriber
    ^^^^

    guess its a std hand then. guess the big question would be if you wuld call with KT. think that draws the line between thin or bad.
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    If it was a pot sized bet I don't think you could even consider a call as I still think the villain could only be bluffing ~20% of the time (if that.) Overbets just make everything more polar. His pacing and the whole 'reg wars' thing makes me want to snap it off but the math and the combinatorics tell a different tale.

    Nice post (whatever you did :lol:)
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    If we ever have a K here I think we should call that, after that i think the next best hand to call is probably some type of 4x, maybe like 45s. QQ isn't bad either blocking KQ and it is good that we don't have the Qc.

    I'm ok with either here, however I think this is 44 a lot. If I had a K I think I still find a call, if you want to try and be balanced throw in some 4x and/or QQ calls. however, as long as we don't fold a K i'm ok overfolding a bit
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    If we ever have a K here I think we should call that, after that i think the next best hand to call is probably some type of 4x, maybe like 45s. QQ isn't bad either blocking KQ and it is good that we don't have the Qc.
    Curious about why 4× would be a better hand to call with? You eliminate two boats and give the villain four combos of KQ?

    I've really tried to come up with any hand that's not a K, a flush or a boat to call with here (and like I said before... not sure how any of those hands check, check-call and then check again.)
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Rocketman74 said:
    stayinschool said:
    If we ever have a K here I think we should call that, after that i think the next best hand to call is probably some type of 4x, maybe like 45s. QQ isn't bad either blocking KQ and it is good that we don't have the Qc.
    Curious about why 4× would be a better hand to call with? You eliminate two boats and give the villain four combos of KQ?

    I've really tried to come up with any hand that's not a K, a flush or a boat to call with here (and like I said before... not sure how any of those hands check, check-call and then check again.)
    I like blocking 44
  • mythomaniac Posts: 284Subscriber
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    Fold. So many hands we lose with. I get he is polarized here but seems like if he's bluffing he would understand he doesn't need to size his bet that big to get a fold here. You played your hand very weak.


    I would call with flushes and Boats and boats for sure. And AK and maybe KQ
    I understand I played this hand weak, is that bad? On this board, I don't think I can value bet too much here against good regs. To me, it seems like I have to seem weak to induce some bluffs. Maybe I have a little "win every pot" mentality going on here, but don't we want to play this board passively and try and get to showdown cheaply?



  • nopair Posts: 350Subscriber
    Bet the turn or fold. You caught literally the second best card you could, after the Q♠ and you still don't have a good choice on the river.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,804Subscriber
    Idk if it's badly played.

    Only real spot I would do different is flop cause I would bet there all time as the preflop aggressor. But I like contiuing the agression post when I'm PFr so could be more of a style thing.

    Tune I could see merits for raising and calling. Just seems like raising here won't work cause a Rec non hand reader isn't betting here as a bluff. Would gladly contknue the flow of checking imo.

    If he's a good players he knows you are repping a very slim value range here and lots of Ax Qx lone flush draws a lot more.

    So if you folded the hand on river I think ta played fine. If u called then I hope you are right

  • mythomaniac Posts: 284Subscriber
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    Idk if it's badly played.

    Only real spot I would do different is flop cause I would bet there all time as the preflop aggressor. But I like contiuing the agression post when I'm PFr so could be more of a style thing.

    Tune I could see merits for raising and calling. Just seems like raising here won't work cause a Rec non hand reader isn't

    I could see how that would make it easier to play OOP. If we were in position, would you still bet flop?
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    If you bet the flop and get called, you compress you opponents range to a group of hands you're not doing well against going forward.

    If the flop checks through as it did, it is probably better to lead the turn. Check-calling is OK, except that you severely cap your range (especially against good opponents.) It's alright and it's a better than a check fold but leading seems best.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,804Subscriber
    mythomaniac said:
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    Idk if it's badly played.

    Only real spot I would do different is flop cause I would bet there all time as the preflop aggressor. But I like contiuing the agression post when I'm PFr so could be more of a style thing.

    Tune I could see merits for raising and calling. Just seems like raising here won't work cause a Rec non hand reader isn't

    I could see how that would make it easier to play OOP. If we were in position, would you still bet flop?
    I'd check back more with more of a polarized ranged IP.

    And i didn't mean to say all the time earlier just I would be betting more then I would be checking flop.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I like a flop check, Turn is close, I think you can go either way.
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