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Do you balance your... tanking range?

Joanna Posts: 428Member
edited June 2017 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I'm kind of torn on this. I've always felt Hollywooding was superlame and that it tended to be done by weaker players attempting to eek out an imaginary edge while doing something supertransparent (hollywooding for 4 mins then raising river all-in) when they're the kind of player who would never do this on a bluff and the whole table knows it.

But..... recently I started thinking. For example, if I'm on the river and about to bluff shove $2K into a $2K pot and I have a tendency to take much longer to figure out if it's a good idea and muster up my courage while when I'm nutted I tend to shove almost right away because there's truly nothing to think about and I hate Hollywooding................. couldn't an observant opponent (especially a reg, especially a GOOD REG?) pick this up? And if I was being exploited by this then I'm not so sure I'd like to pay a $2K price to uphold my mountain-spring-clear ideals of "hollywooding is lame".

Is there a happy middle ground? Like take enough time to complete your thought process first, then always add some arbitrary time interval like 15 secs and then act? That way if you're taking longer on certain actions as opposed to others then at least the extra delay will make it harder to spot? Ideas?

Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I actually talked about this in my last video ;)

    What i do when i'm on the river with a hand I know i'm going to shove for value to balance my taking is think about what hand(s) i would use as a bluff. This does a pretty good job of equaling out timing and is also just a good exercise to help you improve your game.
    by 1AJoff
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    edited June 2017
    I want him to think that I am pondering a call, but all I'm really thinkin about is Vegas and the fuckin' Mirage.
    --- Mike McDermott
  • nopair Posts: 350Subscriber
    Eliminate your tell, don't add more tells to try and cover up the ones you have.
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    stayinschool said:
    I actually talked about this in my last video ;)

    What i do when i'm on the river with a hand I know i'm going to shove for value to balance my taking is think about what hand(s) i would use as a bluff. This does a pretty good job of equaling out timing and is also just a good exercise to help you improve your game.
    Haha, that's brilliant! BTW, holy shit you have videos now? Where? :)

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Joanna said:
    stayinschool said:
    I actually talked about this in my last video ;)

    What i do when i'm on the river with a hand I know i'm going to shove for value to balance my taking is think about what hand(s) i would use as a bluff. This does a pretty good job of equaling out timing and is also just a good exercise to help you improve your game.
    Haha, that's brilliant! BTW, holy shit you have videos now? Where? :)

    They are under "Free bonus videos" they are mostly online but last one was from a live stream i played on
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    Sweet!

  • AJoff Posts: 546Subscriber
    nopair said:
    Eliminate your tell, don't add more tells to try and cover up the ones you have.
    Could you elaborate on the this? My first interpretation is that you are advising op not to take time and think through complicated decisions.
  • nopair Posts: 350Subscriber
    edited June 2017
    AJoff said:
    nopair said:
    Eliminate your tell, don't add more tells to try and cover up the ones you have.
    Could you elaborate on the this? My first interpretation is that you are advising op not to take time and think through complicated decisions.
    Train yourself to think faster and more efficiently _before_ everybody is staring at you when it is your turn to act.
    Train yourself to think better; don't act like you are having problems thinking.

    Tanking when you are thinking is a tell that you have something to think about.
    Pretending to tank when you know what to do is also a tell.

    You should do you actions as promptly as you can because 1) you don't want to give off tells with everybody staring at you, and 2) a winning player wants as fast a game as possible; the more hands you play with a EV+, the more money you make.

    It is better in every human endeavor to look like you know what you are doing as opposed to looking weak/indecisive and not know what you are doing.
  • Rysher8 Posts: 234Subscriber
    edited June 2017
    Take all the time you need Joanna. If anything, good opponents will be more likely to put you on weakness when you bet quickly, and strength when you take your time. If you're part of a small player pool with good regs who are consistently on your table, it's fine to briefly Hollywood occasionally, but I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it (see what I did there?) :-)
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,287Subscriber
    You should be balanced in thinking between value and bluffs.

    Bluff - "what will it take to move him off his hand... CALCULATING!!!"
    Value - "how much will he call... CALCULATING"


    Easy.
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    IMHO tanking reminds bad players that there should be some thought that goes into their decisions.
    tanking takes the "fun" out of the game and turns a table of bad players into a table of guys trying to play more seriously (i.e., folding more).

    overall - a table where players tank too much is a table where win rates drop.

    the more nonchalant you can play - the bigger your edge against bad or "fun" players

    leave the tanking to Doc Sands. play poker.
    when you make it to a TV final table, soak up as much air time as you like.
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,298Pro
    edited June 2017
    I 100% agree with the no-tank ever view. If you are getting into spots where a bluff is good its a much better solution to try to figure out why you are not seeing that spot earlier.

    If you do decide to tank longer to hide your tell, basicly you are saying, instead of fixing my problem I'm going to make poker worse for me and everyone on the table. We dont want to ever encourage thinking or taking a lot of time in poker.

    I should add- you did not mention how long. If you are taking less than 10 seconds total then I dont think its a big deal - but still, if I sit on a table and notice that someone is taking the same time, even 10 seconds, for every decision, that person just gave me a lot more information about their game then if they had been chatting it up and acting like they are having fun. If you balance your tankning I might get less info from you in some spots but Ill have already started paying a lot closer attention to you and may have gained info.

    Very good question BTW - glad you asked it
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,287Subscriber
    I think you should take the time you need. But it also depends on how well you think. I don't think I have ever taken more than 30s to decide a tough hand. Usually my decisions are within 10s if not 3s.
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