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QQ 3-bet pot vs unknown, awkward stack depth

TastesLikeBurning Posts: 429SubscriberProfessional
edited June 2017 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
$2/5 $825 eff

Friday night, hero has his best whale impersonation on, drinking a glass of wine, being talkative and loud.

V is an unknown been at the table for an hour or so, 30s white guy. Skews tight, doesn't seem to be the type to get out of line. Has shown down a couple of winners and has check folded a bunch after buying in for $800.

Weak/loose/passive MAWG limps UTG
Villain opens to $25 from UTG+2
Two field callers
Hero 3! to $110 with Q Q
Folds to villain who tank calls, field callers fold.

Range for villain is 99-JJ, AK, possibly a couple combos of AA/KK but I'm assuming he 4-bets those a majority of the time. Not sure if he's opening/calling pre with smaller pocket pairs and suited connectors. He seemed competent so I was thinking those were unlikely parts of his range.

Flop ($270) 8 6 5

Hero bets $165, villain calls after taking about 10 seconds.

At this point my range for him is 99-JJ. Given the draw-heavy nature of the flop he'd raise any of the AA/KK combos in his range, flat his overpairs, and fold all but A K

Turn ($600) 8 6 5 K

Hero?

Spoiler:
I took a while and moved in, which in retrospect is a HUGE error. I fold everything that I beat and only get called by better. Drinking wine and making critical decisions in big pots is a leak of mine. I think the proper line is check turn, and evaluate. He's most likely checking back pairs AND betting AK +.
If he checks turn I can bet river super small like $175-200 and fold to a shove (even getting a great price). FWIW villain snap folded JJ face up which shows my range for him was accurate.

Comments

  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    I'm never folding here but leading the turn isn't great. I'd check and if villain did bet I'd CRAI. Chances are though, villain checks behind most of the time setting up an easy value bet on pretty much every river.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    Spoiler:
    moving in and making V fold worse was probably bad but having a glass of red wine is not
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    @TastesLikeBurning
    You pretty much covered all in your spoiler.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    @Rocketman74
    Why do you think c/r is better than calling?
    Concept doesn't change if you c/r he'd snap fold all worse and call with better, don't ya agree?
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    Letmewin1 said:
    @Rocketman74
    Why do you think c/r is better than calling?
    Concept doesn't change if you c/r he'd snap fold all worse and call with better, don't ya agree?
    Shoving all-in doesn't get anymore money in the pot while letting villain (possibly) bet pretty much commits him.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited June 2017
    Letmewin1 said:
    @Rocketman74
    Why do you think c/r is better than calling?
    Concept doesn't change if you c/r he'd snap fold all worse and call with better, don't ya agree?
    We barely have a PSB behind, if we x/c the pot is too big to fold river so might as well GII on turn if villain is semi bluffing (& will likely feel priced in w 99-JJ, etc.)
  • luckylouieluckylouie Posts: 42Subscriber
    edited June 2017
    I like X/C turn then X/ evaluate rivers. If he checks turn then we have an easy value bet, as for sizing, going on the small since an over did come. 1/2 or less.
    I looked at spoiler and jamming is absolutely disasterous against most villains. If anything the alcohol is having the reverse effect you wanted having you make incorrect decisions and forcing him to make correct. Best just play solid and not drink at the poker table.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    MonadPrime said:
    Letmewin1 said:
    @Rocketman74
    Why do you think c/r is better than calling?
    Concept doesn't change if you c/r he'd snap fold all worse and call with better, don't ya agree?
    We barely have a PSB behind, if we x/c the pot is too big to fold river so might as well GII on turn if villain is semi bluffing (& will likely feel priced in w 99-JJ, etc.)
    On a Kx turn?
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    edited June 2017
    luckylouie530 said:
    I like X/C turn then X/ evaluate rivers.
    The effective stacks are ~$550 and the pot is $600.

    If the villain makes a half pot bet (and we call) the pot will be $1.2K and we'll have $250 behind (so check/evaluate makes no sense.) If you want to call and then shove the river, fine but I'd just check-raise before a 9 7, 4 or a roll off.

    Chances are, villain probably won't bet but if they do, they'll be pot stuck.
  • luckylouieluckylouie Posts: 42Subscriber
    Rocketman74 said:
    luckylouie530 said:
    I like X/C turn then X/ evaluate rivers.
    The effective stacks are ~$550 and the pot is $600.

    If the villain makes a half pot bet (and we call) the pot will be $1.2K and we'll have $250 behind (so check/evaluate makes no sense.) If you want to call and then shove the river, fine but I'd just check-raise before a 9 7, 4 or a roll off.

    Chances are, villain probably won't bet but if they do, they'll be pot stuck.
    Yea you're right, sorry breezed past the stacks sizes. Thought they were deeper. Calling off river for sure
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited June 2017
    Letmewin1 said:
    MonadPrime said:
    Letmewin1 said:
    @Rocketman74
    Why do you think c/r is better than calling?
    Concept doesn't change if you c/r he'd snap fold all worse and call with better, don't ya agree?
    We barely have a PSB behind, if we x/c the pot is too big to fold river so might as well GII on turn if villain is semi bluffing (& will likely feel priced in w 99-JJ, etc.)
    On a Kx turn?
    Yes. We literally have a PSB behind -- there's no room for deep stack/river plays, so we either commit on turn or we don't. The K -- sometimes it's a scare card that slows down action, other times it doesn't change anything & villains momentum will usually translate into a bet w/ most of their flop commitment range (many people still think in terms of protection). IMO.
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