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How to Properly Compare LA vs Vegas $5/$10 Rake Structures?

http://www.pokeratlas.com/poker-cash-game/commerce-casino-los-angeles-no-limit-holdem-5-10

http://www.pokeratlas.com/poker-cash-game/venetian-las-vegas-no-limit-holdem-5-10

One does rake and another does time. Anyone with decent math skills know how to come up with an approximate comparison between the two?

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Comments

  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    edited July 2017
    Deleted.
  • pray4blank Posts: 135Subscriber
    So the time @ 7 per half hour = $14/hr. That's amazeballs.

    LA drop ~ 35*6 = 210/9 = $23/hr. In CA rooms, I always figure my drop+ tip runs me around $25-$30/hr. Expensive game! I suppose one could argue you're getting back some of the JP drop, if this game is taking a JP drop.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,835AdministratorLeadPro
    Actually I spoke about this yesterday on pokernews here:

    LA does not do rake they do "drop" which means the entire amount is taken after the flop. I believe now its $5 after the flop plus $1 for BBJ and now $1 on the turn so up to $7 per hand. A "rake" is a % of the pot, usually 10% up to a cap. The difference is also huge as the 5-5 game in LA will take that $7 per hand but in a Vegas "rake" game, in say a $20 pot they will only take $2. So rake can sometimes be cheaper than time, but drop is never cheaper than time or rake.
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    pray4blank said:

    LA drop ~ 35*6 = 210/9 = $23/hr.
    Where do 35 and 6 come from?

  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    Bart said:
    Actually I spoke about this yesterday on pokernews here:

    LA does not do rake they do "drop" which means the entire amount is taken after the flop. I believe now its $5 after the flop plus $1 for BBJ and now $1 on the turn so up to $7 per hand. A "rake" is a % of the pot, usually 10% up to a cap. The difference is also huge as the 5-5 game in LA will take that $7 per hand but in a Vegas "rake" game, in say a $20 pot they will only take $2. So rake can sometimes be cheaper than time, but drop is never cheaper than time or rake.
    Thanks, Bart! :tu:
  • Jack7777 Posts: 655Subscriber
    @bart that was a great interview! The best I have seen is the timed rake on some of the boats in 5/5 and up games. It $6 every half hour per player. The dealers collect it at the beginning of their downs. I am not sure if $1 of that goes for the JP. But it a flat $12 per hour to play.
  • pray4blank Posts: 135Subscriber
    Joanna said:
    pray4blank said:

    LA drop ~ 35*6 = 210/9 = $23/hr.
    Where do 35 and 6 come from?

    I estimate 35 hands an hour, and I was assuming drop is $6/hand. This is assuming most hands see a flop.
  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    pray4blank said:
    Joanna said:
    pray4blank said:

    LA drop ~ 35*6 = 210/9 = $23/hr.
    Where do 35 and 6 come from?

    I estimate 35 hands an hour, and I was assuming drop is $6/hand. This is assuming most hands see a flop.
    I feel this analysis is too crude.

    1. I believe 35 hands/hr is too high. I'd say it's 25. If we use 25 then we get pretty much same charge as Vegas.

    2. By using $6 for every hand you assume that not only every hand sees flop (not true) but that every hand sees every river because without seeing river it's only $5. A more reasonable estimate would assume a share of hands getting raked $2, others $5 and others $6. In $5/$10 fewer hands see flops as people play tighter so there the share of "no flop" rakes will be higher. And rivers are also seen less frequently which reduces the share of $6 rakes.

    3. By diving by 9 you assume that everyone pays rake equally. That's not the case. Tighter players pay much less.

    I think given all these factors it's reasonable to conclude that LA and Vegas structures result in a very similar net cost to a tight $5/$10 player.

  • Joanna Posts: 428Member
    alrity then :wink:
  • fishcake Posts: 952Subscriber
    LA is definitely more than 25 hands/hr. I think 30-32 is about right. Maybe in Vegas tanking games it's 25.
  • pray4blank Posts: 135Subscriber
    Joanna said:


    3. By diving by 9 you assume that everyone pays rake equally. That's not the case. Tighter players pay much less.

    Yaaaa....but...

    I think there is a case to be made that if that money is coming off the table, in either drop or tips, we are paying for it in someway. If we stack someone at anytime during the night, we lose all that rake they paid that could have been on the table. If they stack off to someone else we stack later, we lose all that rake they paid that could have been on the table.

    Additionally in smaller games like 1/3 and 2/5 (and i know this post was about 5/10 specifically), we may pass situations completely due to drop considerations in these CA games. Ex. If I'm button, and the big blind is competent, but defends his blind very wide, I may decide to not open, as a heads up pot that drops a huge percent most hands might be too costly.

    So...I don't really know how much the drop costs us compared to looser players, but I don't think it's as simple as: I won 2 hands, therefore I paid two hands worth of drop.
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