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1-2-5 Flop spot

JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
I have not posted in awhile but was in a 1-2-5 game & had an interesting spot come up.

Hero stack is 450 up from 400 buy in. Hero has neutral image is 35 year old white guy. Has been at table for an hour. When hand arises. Straddle is on to 10. Breakeven Tag raises in utg +1 to 25 with 600 stack and gets 3 callers 2 in position and 1 in sb and hero looks down to see
K Q in BB and calls , straddle folds.
Flop:(125) 6 8 3 hero checks original raiser makes it 35. Everyone folds back to hero: ..... what's your optimal line with these stacks ?

Thanks

Comments

  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited July 2017
    Whether you jam or raise small to set up a shove on turn (and possibly look stronger w/ small sizing) is the question. Villain looks unsure & timid w/ their sizing into a family pot.

    Sizing is such that I rather give villain two chances to fold in this spot. I raise to about 130 here & jam all turns.
    by 1JKH
  • Aldune Posts: 55SubscriberProfessional
    Easy flop raise against weak sizing to around $135, ship turn on most cards. We've got solid equity on the flop and on all turns against his range, and good fold equity, go for it;
    by 1JKH
  • ohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    3bet preflop may be good here. Being OOP but then again we do have the best position. Either way seems fine.

    As played, love the raise. We hit this flop harder than our opponent and have great equity when called. Small raise, turn jam on most cards seems solid.
    by 1JKH
  • nopair Posts: 350Subscriber
    Call. You are getting pot odds on the flop bet and you have great implied odds going forward.

    You definitely don't want your opponent to fold. If you had 99 you would want to make use of fold equity, not here where you want extract value from future streets.

    You aren't trying to maximize your winning of this pot. You are trying to maximize your EV.
  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    nopair said:
    Call. You are getting pot odds on the flop bet and you have great implied odds going forward.

    You definitely don't want your opponent to fold. If you had 99 you would want to make use of fold equity, not here where you want extract value from future streets.

    You aren't trying to maximize your winning of this pot. You are trying to maximize your EV.
    Don't think I understand the logic here against any of his range that could call any bets when I improve I am at best a slight favourite against on the flop. I would think having him fold be a good result.
    Anyway what happened was
    Spoiler:
    I raised to $150 and he thought for awhile and put me all in for $425-- $275 more --I call and he shows A J and the turn was a t river A. ugh


    Thanks for all the comments I really appreciate them
  • nopair Posts: 350Subscriber
    edited July 2017
    Why would your priority to want him to fold? Your priorities should be to maximize your profits when you get there; leave your options open should you miss the turn and river; play for cheap when you lose and stacks when you win, etc.

    And, while I don't usually care about spoilers, you also have to consider that if he has the ace high flush draw, which means here your raise is the worst possible play.

    If the dead pot was smaller and the bet facing you larger, then raising makes makes some sense. But here you are getting a very cheap draw where if you call you can know with 100% certainty that you are making an EV+ move (because even against A♦ J♦ you have a 20% chance of winning).

    We seldom get situations where we know _for sure_ one choice is EV+, so we shouldn't normally choose other options that may or may not be EV+.
  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    nopair said:
    Why would your priority to want him to fold? Your priorities should be to maximize your profits when you get there; leave your options open should you miss the turn and river; play for cheap when you lose and stacks when you win, etc.

    And, while I don't usually care about spoilers, you also have to consider that if he has the ace high flush draw, which means here your raise is the worst possible play.

    If the dead pot was smaller and the bet facing you larger, then raising makes makes some sense. But here you are getting a very cheap draw where if you call you can know with 100% certainty that you are making an EV+ move (because even against A♦ J♦ you have a 20% chance of winning).

    We seldom get situations where we know _for sure_ one choice is EV+, so we shouldn't normally choose other options that may or may not be EV+.
    Fair enough I respect your opinion but am going to agree to disagree. I think calling is better when stacks are deeper and raising prudent b/c of low spr on the flop.
  • nopair Posts: 350Subscriber
    For sure the deeper you are the better the call, but this is odd territory since the bet is 35 and our stack is 425. Our stack is 12x the bet, but only 2.1x the pot if we call. Kinda deep in one way, not very deep in the other.
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