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Rake comparisons and moving up

I know there have been plenty of discussions centering around rake. I did a search and didn't find quite what i was looking for, so fig'd i'd start a new discussion on it. I feel like i haven't done enough studying on the subject and the affect it has on my overall win rate. So if any of you know of any good other posts or articles on the subject..feel free to leave a link.

I play in a smallish room. The 2/5 is 500 cap, the 5/10 is 1k cap. 2/5 is 10% up to 5$, no BBJ...and no flop no drop. The 5/10 is 7$ every 1/2 hour. I am one of the better regs in the room, and probably the best 2/5 reg. I mainly grind 2/5 and play the 5/10 infrequently, but am thinking of moving up to 5/10 more full time, unless the lineup is trash. Both games are soft, and i play a pretty aggressive style. My slash numbers would def be more closer to Laggy than Taggy.

As with most rooms, the 2/5 vs 5/10 game dynamic is typical. The other regs at 2/5 are solid, but nothing spectacular. Lots of limping, low 3b freq, etc. The 5/10 regs are better, with a couple being VERY good...so the game in general i would say is slightly tougher, with limping being less frequent...3b more freq...etc. I do notice a solid % of the big whale/VIP's preferring to play the 5/10 since its the biggest game in the room and appeals to their degen nature, so perhaps that would neutralize the presence of tougher regs? My numbers when i play 5/10 likely fall slightly back towards TAG to counter the fact that the play is slightly better and i cant get away with some of the exploits i do at 2/5. To summarize...i expect my aggression to fall slightly at 5/10, resulting in less pots won per hour, which takes advantage of the time game less.

So with all this said, one of my main considerations for moving up to the 5/10 on more of a full time basis is the rake affect. Im aware that $14/hour at 5/10 is better than 10% $5 max at 2/5, but how much so? Is there any way to quantify that, and what impact it might have on my hourly? I know it depends on many variables...which is why i gave a backdrop on the room dynamics and my overall approach/style. I suppose the simplest formula is that if we win 3 or more fully raked pots at 2/5 per hour ($15), we will be paying less rake at 5/10. I don't have exact numbers, but i know with my style that i win more than that per hour.

Any insight by you guys is appreciated, thanks.
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Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Your formula is pretty good. I'd just say if you win 3 pot per hour or more then the rake at 2/5 is higher, because you pretty much always hit the cap, not hard to get $50 in the pot at 2/5, especially when there is limping.

    Based on how you describe your style i'd say your probably land more around 4 pots per hour.

    Either way, i'd move up to 5/10. Or at least get in the game whenever one of the whales is in there.

    I'd guess your hourly is at least 150% in the 5/10 that it is in 2/5. Obviously bankroll management is important but assuming you are rolled i'd get in there when the game is good
  • FreeBrady Posts: 18Member
    Thanks school. What would your personal suggestion as far as bankroll requirements go for both games i described?

    4 pots an hour sounds about right i would say, or at least i think its closer to 4 than 3. Going off that we can assume some rough numbers that im paying ~$20/hr rake at 2/5 vs $14 at 5/10, which would be almost 150% increase, and pretty significant.

  • Jesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber
    Another thing to note (though this depends on stack depth and other factors) is that you can't ignore the rake paid by other players, as that is still money being taken off the table, which you now can't win. For example, if you stack a lag-fish (probably not a common player type in your game but it illustrates the point) who won 4 pots in the last hour, you have in a sense paid 20 dollars in rake, because but for the rake he would have had that money when you stacked him, so you would have won it. Depending on the frequency of stacking villains (the only case where this clearly come up) this could be a consideration.

    Also, in addition to BR considerations is also important to consider quality of life/tilt issues. Generally, the higher you play the harder you swing. I know Bart talks about that as a reason he doesn't play much 10/20, because the swings impact his quality of life and motivation to play. Just some other things to consider.

    I think BR requirements depend a lot on whether you have another job/source of income. Personally, if I didn't I'd want at least 100 buy-ins plus like a years worth of living expenses. But I am a super nit.

  • FreeBrady Posts: 18Member
    Jesse_The_Suit said:
    Another thing to note (though this depends on stack depth and other factors) is that you can't ignore the rake paid by other players, as that is still money being taken off the table, which you now can't win. For example, if you stack a lag-fish (probably not a common player type in your game but it illustrates the point) who won 4 pots in the last hour, you have in a sense paid 20 dollars in rake, because but for the rake he would have had that money when you stacked him, so you would have won it. Depending on the frequency of stacking villains (the only case where this clearly come up) this could be a consideration.

    Also, in addition to BR considerations is also important to consider quality of life/tilt issues. Generally, the higher you play the harder you swing. I know Bart talks about that as a reason he doesn't play much 10/20, because the swings impact his quality of life and motivation to play. Just some other things to consider.

    I think BR requirements depend a lot on whether you have another job/source of income. Personally, if I didn't I'd want at least 100 buy-ins plus like a years worth of living expenses. But I am a super nit.


    This is somewhat true. But swings are more of a function of variance...and since both games are somewhat similar in softness...the variance should in theory stay roughly the same. So my expected good runs and bad runs will be in larger dollar amounts....but the graph shape figures to stay relatively the same. Also, much like Bart, i pride myself on mental strength and tilt control, so those are not areas i tend to struggle with typically.

    As far as bankroll requirements go...100 bb is an extremely high figure. I used to grind HU online, which was a much more higher variance game type..and i barely used 100 bi rule then. Live cash, especially when soft, is a much more slower and low variance form game than many of its online counterparts...so you can definitely get away with lower buy in numbers. I have my own guidelines...but was interested in school's take on the matter.

  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,287Subscriber
    Play the best game. Forget the limits. Who cares. Just play the best game in your casino. That is the most important.
  • fishcake Posts: 917Subscriber
    That 5/10's rake and being the double the stake is naturally going to have a significantly higher achievable winrate unless the game is somehow super tough.
  • nted22 Posts: 61Subscriber
    Fuzzypup said:
    Play the best game. Forget the limits. Who cares. Just play the best game in your casino. That is the most important.
    Gotta disagree here. Most important thing is typically playing the game that yields the highest hourly. What's the best we're ever doing in a great 1/2 $300 cap game with a $5 drop, $30-$35 per hour? Even in a sub-par lineup, we're prob going to yield higher than that in a 5/10 1k cap time rake game.

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