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1/2 Facing awkward raise on flop.

psi1122 Posts: 130Subscriber
edited September 2017 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hero CO- 350 to start the hand

Villain BTN- He's a bit of a spewish villain, definitely calls a bit too wide pre, and he's tends to button click on a lot on flops. He sometimes does the old raise for information, or raise to see where he is. He's capable of spewing around . Villain is not a huge folder (sticky player), but not a calling station sticky, so we do have some implied odds. 300 to start with

This hand is folded to me in the CO. I look down at 6 4 in the CO and opens to 10. This is a bit of a liberal open from the CO. but Moving on

Villain on the BTN flats calls the 10. Blinds fold.

23 Flop is pretty good Q K 2

I c-bet this board, should be good for my range with 12. Villain does a lol-raise to 30. The min-raise +tax. Usually, I think we have a pretty clear fold with the 6 high flush draw. , Villain can be raising better flush draws etc. etc. However, does this change against a button clicker? There are some reverse implied odds if villain has a better flush draw, and there are many flush draws that are better than us. But should we fold here against villain who can be loling around with top pair hands, maybe even second pairs, and straight draws etc. etc. We do have implied odds against villain's pairs. For example, Villain has KJ, and a spade comes on the turn/river, I don't see him folding.

Comments

  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 348SubscriberProfessional
    you described v as a "button clicker" who makes raises with top pair type hands. this definitely seems like that type of raise.

    two possibilities:

    1) v is raising to "find out where he's at" and is going to pot control and check back a lot of turns allowing you to realize your equity
    2) v actually flopped two pair+ and you can get his stack if you hit.

    either way, seems like a profitable call.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    If villain likes to raise w/ TP, but won't fold TP, our only real option is to call & go to the turn. If villain raises MP as well, plus stuff like oesd, & is capable of folding those hands, we could 4! here & follow up on the turn. All depends.
  • psi1122 Posts: 130Subscriber
    edited September 2017
    I completely agree that if villain likes to raise TP, we have a clear call here, and villain is going to raise things like top pair here, becuase for the lolz.

    My only concern is that we're going to run into like into the better flush draw here, and then we're going to RIO on spade turns and river. (I could see him raising small with better flush draws). I don't know why he would raise small with better flush draws, but he's going to do that. Is that enough of a concern for us to worry about?
  • Sonny Posts: 370Subscriber
    edited September 2017
    Considering the relatively small size of the pot and his raise size, I wouldn't expect him to be raising a flush draw here. If he was betting a better flush draw I think he would probably be betting larger, to move you off of your hand as it looks like you have something better than 6 high. Even the worst players know you're probably going to call the $18 more unless you have complete air or a pair lower than a Q. So I expect him to probably have some sort of pair here. I also don't see many players in the player pool of this stake investing a lot of money into a small pot with a flush draw. I've found that at 1/2 the players are way more likely a bluff with a flush draw when the pot is already bloated, which it isn't here.
    I agree with squish's first situation and is probably going to check back the turn.
  • psi1122 Posts: 130Subscriber
    I agree. If we're opening 64s from the CO, we can't really just go folding that all the time can we. But it feels kinda perverse and donky to call a raise with 6 high oop. But whatever, I have to agree that we have to call here.


    I call the bet. Rest of the hand isn't particularly interesting.

    (63) Turn is the 8

    Villain bets 25. For the same reason we can call flop, I think we have the same reason we can call turn.

    113 River is the K

    check check. I show 6 high, he shows AT.
  • gocubsgo Posts: 4Subscriber
    psi1122 said:


    This hand is folded to me in the CO. I look down at 6 4 in the CO and opens to 10. This is a bit of a liberal open from the CO. but Moving on

    I actually want to talk about this part of the hand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with opening this hand from the CO. While it is certainly at the bottom of your opening range it is still absolutely fine to open this hand for a raise.

    It took me quite a bit to learn this lesson. I was afraid to open with "weaker" hands. But it is important to open these type of hands for a raise from this spot. I highly suggest you watch the following video as it was a BIG help for me preflop:

    http://www.crushlivepoker.com/videos/introduction-to-preflop-fundamentals



  • psi1122 Posts: 130Subscriber
    I'll obviously watch the video, thanks for sharing the link. I didn't think too much about that, but I will after.
  • 2thdoctor Posts: 66Subscriber
    you could check raise the turn, that $25 bet is EXTREMELY weak, its less than his previous raise. Or you could call and lead river/bet river since he's shown so much weakness
    by 1psi1122
  • psi1122 Posts: 130Subscriber
    edited September 2017
    I like that thinking, I think he's going to play face-up a bit on the turn, aka betting small with his "lol-hands" and better bigger with his value hands.

  • FriendlyFish Posts: 83Member
    Why not bet river with no show down and villian has showned weakness on turn and river

    Pre is fine, flop is a call.
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