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Higher level (Top Section type) scenario happened twice! what is our response?

I sub to top section and it has transformed my game!.. I consider myself a pretty smart person but in reality there is little chance I would have figured out the concepts that Conlan and Bart discuss every week.. BUT I can soak up what they talk about and then incorporate those in my game.

I believe that these concepts are valid in any game where stacks are deep say 200bbs effective not necessarily only in game say 5/10 and above. I play mainly 5/5 and I use these concepts ALL the time..

Ok so now I want your opinion on a couple of hands I played last night. I want to know your thoughts based on our position, my read on villain, stack depth (especially) optimal play theory , exploitative play adjustments etc..


Hand #1 Hams 3! AQ suited get 4 bet to large amount spr will be 1 if I call..

Villain is in general a more tight tag pro. Happy to call a bit wider if he feels he is getting the right price (we played a hand last weekend at commerce where he called 64 suited in bb to my 35 open). I believe he is a thinking pro ..

Fish limps.. Vil is in CO and raises to 40 as pot was straddled.. I am on button and given this dynamic and one better pro in bb I should be 3! to iso his iso with the top of my range given his range can be so much wider. So I raise to $120.. it folds back to him and he tanks then 4!s me to $450 . We are about $1600 effective.

His raise is so big that if I call pot will be over $950 and he will have just about $1100 left.. So does that mean we are prepared to stack off if we hit top pair? Flush draws we are obviously going with .. I chatted a bit with Conlan about this in slack but wanted to see what others thought?

So given basically how short we will be is this still a call? Is folding better or even a ship? I played a hand last week with a player I was much more familiar with 1000 deep and I shipped AQ suited as a 5! against him for value because I knew that his 4! was more polarized.. but shipping for 280bbs? I dunno how that is so hot.. but if I call the $450 and hit any piece I don't see how I can get away from the hand..




Hand #2.. New player I have never played with but knows that Hollywood Park started a capped 5/10 game...

Younger black guy sits down buys in for 1000.. has built his stack to about 1300.. has only played for a short time. I have hin covered.. Almost exact same dynamic as in hand 1.. except there wasn't a straddle but a single limper.. villain makes it 30.. I in CO make it $110.. with AJ suited.. ( I pick suited hands to do this with in part because if provides me a good balance for frequencies and they are more playable postflop)

folds back to him and fairly quickly he raises to $350.. wtf.. 4! twice in same session!! stacks are even shorter here.. but same question as above apply. Stack off , fold , can I call? all of this going through my head...


thanks!!!



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Comments

  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited September 2017
    H#2 seems like a fold if we're basically readless. We cant assume the average villain is familiar/comfortable/balanced in a 3!/4!/5! game, and we have no room to maneuver post flop.

    H#1 there is a much better case for 5! shoving. I prefer fold to flat, but if we flat I think it's a clear GII if we hit tp, etc.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    I think in both spots 3! Was a mistake
    AP
    H1: fold-->ship----------->call
    H2: fold
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    Letmewin1

    this situation isn't a good idea against every player.. but considerations are who is in the blinds and there was one pretty good player and its better to raise and go heads up rather than have that person in. If both blinds were fish then I am going to call there. also the dynamic of in each hand it looked like the pfr was iso raising a limper means by nature their hand range is weaker. again this is a great spot to 3 bet with a wider value range to attack that weaker range in position with a hand that will play pretty good post flop.

    These are some of the concepts I have been learning in top section. These are "optimal" based plays and I have been using these as new baselines of which i can deviate from to exploit the play of the villain. Last week in a similar spot facing a 4 bet i shipped AQ suited for value because that villain was completely capable of 4 betting me light. His stack size was also $1000 so if i lost it wouldnt be too spazzy.. :-)
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    edited September 2017
    Wendy
    I understand what you're saying and am very happy you're learning new concepts that are helping your game and a high five from me for being brave and trying them out.

    The concept of using these hands to squeeze is pretty cool, as long as we take every variable into consideration b4 execution and this is only for value if you think he calls with worse often enough.
    And IMO there just isn't enough dead money in the pot so I personify much rather call and play post with a good hand and just because there's a good reg in the BB isn't a good enough reason to squeeze.
    IMHO
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    LMwin

    For sure.. and thanks for your comments!!!

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