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1/3 -- TP+FD vs 3-Barrel

MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
edited September 2017 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Never played w/ villain before. Late 40s Asian Lady. I think it played out pretty standard, but is there any merit to A) folding pre B) 3! pre C) raising turn or flop. River I figured is not callable readless, correct me if I'm wrong. Villain is about 100BB deep.

Hero (BB $400): Qh 9h

EP limps, fold x 3, Villain raises $15, fold x 2, BTN calls, SB folds, Hero calls

Flop ($49): Qc 8h 5h

Hero checks, Villain bets $30, fold, Hero calls

Turn ($109): Tc

Hero checks, Villain bets $61, Hero calls

River ($231): 2c

Hero checks, Villain all-in $210, Hero folds
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Comments

  • pokeromc Posts: 36Subscriber
    i think 3! pre is pointless here. people generally don't fold enough at 1/3 to 3!, so you're just going to be OOP with a marginal hand

    i could get behind c/r flop or turn. river is a give up imo
  • sanox Posts: 82Subscriber
    Folding pf is too tight , especially against a 3x open. Calling and 3betting are both fine .

    As played, without reads I might call. You block 9J, you don't block 67 which can be a bluffing hand and you don't have that many better hands in your triple c/c range (assuming you might raise a set flop or turn)
  • psi1122 Posts: 130Subscriber
    I have to agree with the general consensus. I think I would have played it just the same.

    Call flop, call turn, and probably sigh-fold river. Raising flop/turn to GII is also probably okay as well. We have hearts ourselves so we block his bluffing hands (somewhat).



  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,804Subscriber
    i like it. not 3! unless the sizing is off or if she is weak tight and we have been snug lately.

    If she cbet smaller I would advocate a c/r but this is a somewhat decent sized bet by Villain Unknown.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited September 2017
    neverlearn2 said:
    i like it. not 3! unless the sizing is off or if she is weak tight and we have been snug lately.

    If she cbet smaller I would advocate a c/r but this is a somewhat decent sized bet by Villain Unknown.
    Yeah, I've just been incorporating more & more 3! and am looking for thinner spots, but this is not likely one of them, and despite picking up equity on the turn, a random's 2-barrel range is pretty snug generally, and most certainly when facing "good" sizing on both streets. So I wasn't exactly enthusiastic about my chances of folding out her TP/OP heavy range (w/ the occasional AKhh, AThh, etc. that outplay me on the river).
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited September 2017
    sanox said:
    Folding pf is too tight , especially against a 3x open. Calling and 3betting are both fine .

    As played, without reads I might call. You block 9J, you don't block 67 which can be a bluffing hand and you don't have that many better hands in your triple c/c range (assuming you might raise a set flop or turn)
    Yeah that's fair, but I always assume a random low stakes player will be under-bluffing by such a significant margin that the typical qualifications for minimum-defense frequencies w/ top-pairs, etc. don't really apply as much. Alot of us here are competent players, and most of us still don't come close to bluffing at proper frequencies either. I mean, I often see people check back something as strong as AA on the river here, because they fear monsters under the bed, and this board is actually sort of scary for both of us.

    Preflop it was a 5x open, and there was a caller between us, so a multi-way pot out of position against a superior range is why I consider a fold here.

  • sanox Posts: 82Subscriber
    MonadPrime said:


    Preflop it was a 5x open, and there was a caller between us, so a multi-way pot out of position against a superior range is why I consider a fold here.

    My bad, I misread. I still think calling is OK (4bb to add in a 17.5bb pot), but folding becomes less bad then.

    What you say about your average vilain underbluffing is interesting - I moved one year ago to NorCal from the east coast , and now I would actually assume that vilains usually tend to over bluff from what I see. In the East coast , I would have been the opposite .

    That is why without too many reads, I try to play "optimal" (I try to be careful with the use of this word though) until I have reads on vilain to try to adjust.

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