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Small boat on the river fold or easy call?

I am on the button with 800 effective stack. 7 handed.

mp limps, guy next to him limps. The second limper has been playing decent, and trying to act like a drunk. But he has made some good plays, but will chase draws. earlier i believe he checked raised with a set when I had an overpair and was the pre flop raiser. he showed a 7 on a 9 7 4 10 spade flush draw on the flop. he claims a7 but i doubt that. Cutoff: raises to 25 and he is a thinking player and plays for a living. I still believe he has a lot of holes in his game, but he does know what he is doing. but can be station at sometimes.

I call with pocket 5s and limpers call
I've been pretty tight and card dead for over an hour. I did make a few plays and made a bluff on the limper. But for the most part i was tight, and folding a lot.

pot: 100: flop Ac 5d 4d. it is checked to me. I bet 75. The 2nd limper calls and cutoff calls.

Pot: 325: turn is a js so: Ac 5d 4d js: checked to me I bet 225. First guy thinks for 10 seconds and call. cutoff thinks for about a minute and calls.

pot: 1000: river is the jd: final runout: ac 5d 4d js jd: first guy tanks tanks and open ships for 500. cutoff tanks for 3 minutes and calls.

Many questions on this one:
1. what do you do here?
2. what if cutoff folds?
3. if cutoff calls, and 2nd limper starts acting up. like standing up saying ohh the flush got there. you have 43 interesting?
4. if the guy doesn't do anything? calm sits there
I am not a huge on live tells, but they can help on this pot.
5. pot odds matter?

questions comments. I will try to answer them as much as possible.


  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    Interesting hand. When the second J rolls off, especially since it also completes front door diamonds, you must be like, "Yes, FINALLY, goldmine, I hope someone has a flush, PLEASE let one of these monkeys have a flush so I can get their stack?!" At least that's what THIS guy would be thinking.

    Then, when the limper open ships, and the cutoff tanks and calls, now I would need to think. First off, you said you thought the limper will chase draws. This looks a lot like a chased draw to me (diamonds). I would put him most likely on a flush, not wanting it to get checked through by CO and by you. The A on the flop is not a diamond, so Axdd is certainly in his preflop limp-calling range.

    When CO tank-calls, I have to put him on a range of hands. He was the PFR, so JJ (one combo), AA (three combos), and AJ (six combos) are certainly in his river tank-calling range with one opponent left to act (you), as are AK and AQ, all combos of which you beat. However, why would a good player who raises PF with a big A check an A54cc flop into 3 opponents? He would most certainly c-bet those hands, right??? And with JJ, wouldn't he think you and the limper are going nowhere on the turn after you bet $225 and the limper calls, and that he could get a nice c/r in on the turn for value??

    This hand is not making much sense to me. I think this is a must call.

    1. call
    2. call
    3. call
    4. call, puke a little in mouth
    5. Yes. You're getting 4:1 on your call, so you have to be good one time in five. Call.

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I agree with readmylips. they probably both have a flush. given the wet board I just dont get that these guys could have much. I am even struggling to see how they could have a bigger boat that has a J in it. only slowplaying a set of aces would do it. is this guy capable of this kind of slowplay? ie Have you ever seen the original raiser ever slowplay a monster on a wet board? You just dont see it that often

    I dont think you can raise but I think a call is the right line and know its probably the best hand and with the play to balance risk reward. however if you really know these guys and you just never seen either of them slowplay a monster then the inly hand they could have is AJ. Could they? have you seen either player limp w aj or raise then just call down? if not then they really only could have a flush and you could shove. since you beat 4s full. I wouldnt do this but it is another option.

  • So, this was a very interesting hand, and I wanted to get some input and share a few things after i got info.

    First: I felt the limper would have c/r flop or turn with a set. Also, I feel he might do that with Ax of diamonds some of the time. Especially if he had ace little. I also felt if he had a straight he would have made a play sooner. Plus there is a small chance he has j-4 suited. Small but it is there. i doubt jacks b/c i don't think he would call the flop. (same for both players). On the flop my read was small diamond draw maybe a gut shot with it. Weak ace. Turn was interesting: it was hard to put him on a hand. I know he calls with a draw on the turn. But he could also have turned two pair. River was weird because the guy in the middle was saying i have a flush draw and it hit. So, I got confused by his play. I was thinking would he ship a small flush here? Would he ship the straight? Why didn't he go all in on the turn with two pair? This was a very interesting hand.

    CO: I put him on a flush draw on the turn call. If he had aces i would have heard from him by the turn. But most likely on the flop. His pre flop range over two limpers is pretty tight. He can and will make plays, but with the call station limpers not likely. On the turn I was 100% he has a draw, because he would have made a play by now. Unless he has aj. But I think he would make a play with that some of the time.

    So after the first guy ships and the 2nd guy tanks calls:

    My thought process for the next 3 minutes or so : I am thinking why would a guy ship a flush into a player who is calling, and a player that is being really aggressive. This didn't make sense. I felt he would check call. I could be wrong but that was my read. So, once co calls I was like ok I am done. or am I.

    I tanked and tanked: then he started to do some acting and this gave it away. but before that i wasn't sure.

    he stood up and started saying stuff you got a 23 and i go i got that crushed. tank and tank finally clock is on me and 30 seconds left. i flip my 5s over and he flips over an ace and i snap fold. But i was leaning towards folding before that. because of his acting and mannerisms. maybe i give my opponents too much credit, but aj is the only hand that made sense. i fold he has aj and the co guy said i had him beat. so flush of some sort. but if he didn't do any acting or say anything. i still don't know b/c i was tanking for a few minutes before that.
  • ILYA Posts: 129Subscriber
    So the guy limp/called with AJ and didn't C/R when he turned top 2. That would have basically earned him my stack. I am calling here for my last 450, especially getting 4/1 on the call. The guy is representing a flush very convincingly.

    In a vacuum, it's hard to put PFR on a hand. But I wouldn't give him AA, JJ or AJ, so I am calling.
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