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Fast Track Poker No 3 "Post Flop Fundamentals"

Craig Posts: 613Administrator
In-depth look at post-flop fundamentals. Some of the concepts explored include, relative hand strength, ranges, balance, board textures, position, and much more.

Module Posts at 11 AM PST.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/curriculum/post-flop-fundamentals
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  • kaboojie Posts: 192Subscriber
    Hi Ki,

    I think this Fast Track series is fantastic so far. I hope you continue with the great work!

    I have a question about srp's as the pfr with mid pocket pairs.

    I find it hard to construct any type of range with these holdings on most board textures. The only boards that give me a lot of bluffs and value ranges are mid/coordinated boards. However, because I am the pfr, I think I should be looking to check a lot on this board texture because it favours the pfc's range. Would you agree?

    Also, on any high boards or low/uncoordinated boards where the board textures favour my range, I find it hard to near impossible to come up with a betting range (value or bluff) I'm not sure if I should start adding bd draws to my betting range or just check a lot.

    In the end, I feel I'm doing something wrong here because I am checking with these holdings way more than I think should. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
    by 1KiLee
  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 130Pro
    kaboojie said:
    Hi Ki,

    I think this Fast Track series is fantastic so far. I hope you continue with the great work!

    I have a question about srp's as the pfr with mid pocket pairs.

    I find it hard to construct any type of range with these holdings on most board textures. The only boards that give me a lot of bluffs and value ranges are mid/coordinated boards. However, because I am the pfr, I think I should be looking to check a lot on this board texture because it favours the pfc's range. Would you agree?

    Also, on any high boards or low/uncoordinated boards where the board textures favour my range, I find it hard to near impossible to come up with a betting range (value or bluff) I'm not sure if I should start adding bd draws to my betting range or just check a lot.

    In the end, I feel I'm doing something wrong here because I am checking with these holdings way more than I think should. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
    Hi, I think you are specifically asking about where hands like 77/88/99 fall in your betting range on different flops. Yes, most of the flops that you don't hit a set with is a little dicey to bet with these because these become under pairs to the top card. In a perfectly balanced strategy, most hands are bet at partial frequencies, and these mid pairs are bet at a somewhat low frequency on most boards. On some boards, they are cbet more. Specifically, when we have a narrow and strong range (UTG open) and the board is very favorable for us (AQ4ssx. On these flops, our ENTIRE range is pretty much bet for a small sizing, and hands like 77/88 function as protection bets and/or semi-bluffs. Sometimes solvers even have us bet hands like 22/33/44 on a board like KJ6. So as you can see, there is no simple answer. Rather than trying to see when you can cbet pocket pairs, I think the better approach is to think about what your entire range is in a given spot and see what hands are best for betting and what hands are best for checking. I generally try to avoid the strategy of betting certain hands at partial frequencies, and resort to categorizing them either as bet all the time or check all the time.

    For your second question - On high dry boards or low dry boards - It is hard to construct a solid betting range. On the High dry boards, it's hard to construct a solid triple barreling range, both for value and for bluff. So usually one street will be checked(unless the V is a VIP, which are common at lower stakes), and you can either employ a check/bet/bet strategy, or Bet/check/bet strategy. If you want to check the flop, just check 100% of your range. If you want to bet the flop, I usually cbet 100% of my range for a small sizing, then check the turn a lot with most of my range, and then go for a river bet. On low dry boards, again it doesnt hit our range, but I like to pound these boards. I like to deviate from the optimal strategy here and cbet and double/triple barrel on a lot of runouts vs weak recreational players. I usually cbet 100% on these boards and then look to double and triple barrel a lot. We can rep so many over cards and a lot of the villain's flop calling range will become very weak by the river.
  • kaboojie Posts: 192Subscriber
    Thanks for your prompt response, Ki. This definitely helps!
    by 1KiLee
  • NEO Posts: 46Subscriber
    Ki - On high dry boards, you recommend checking 100% of flops. It seems to me that in live poker where most players tend to cbet way too frequently and are unbalanced, when we check on these flops as the PFR I find that it automatically elicits a bet from the villain since they perceive us to be weak for checking.

    With that said, I'm concerned that by checking, I'm losing out on the immediate value of winning the pot right then and there when it's unlikely to hit them as well. It also kind of puts us in a tough spot to take a check/call line with a hand like 10/9 suited on a K23r board when we don't have any real bluff catchers. How are you playing in these spots both in position and OOP when the villain takes a stab at the pot and all we have is like a 10 high, J high, or Q high type hand?

    Am I wrong to say that as the PFR in early position against someone in late position on a high dry board that its better to bet/check/bet so that way we don't have to put ourselves in a difficult spot to potentially check/call on multiple streets and or just giving up the initiative to the PFC and folding right away?

    On the flip side, when in late position against an early PFC on a high dry board, is it better to take a check/bet/bet line since we have the power of position and can give up the betting initiative on the flop without making it too difficult for ourselves?

  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 130Pro
    NEO said:
    Ki - On high dry boards, you recommend checking 100% of flops. It seems to me that in live poker where most players tend to cbet way too frequently and are unbalanced, when we check on these flops as the PFR I find that it automatically elicits a bet from the villain since they perceive us to be weak for checking.

    With that said, I'm concerned that by checking, I'm losing out on the immediate value of winning the pot right then and there when it's unlikely to hit them as well. It also kind of puts us in a tough spot to take a check/call line with a hand like 10/9 suited on a K23r board when we don't have any real bluff catchers. How are you playing in these spots both in position and OOP when the villain takes a stab at the pot and all we have is like a 10 high, J high, or Q high type hand?

    Am I wrong to say that as the PFR in early position against someone in late position on a high dry board that its better to bet/check/bet so that way we don't have to put ourselves in a difficult spot to potentially check/call on multiple streets and or just giving up the initiative to the PFC and folding right away?

    On the flip side, when in late position against an early PFC on a high dry board, is it better to take a check/bet/bet line since we have the power of position and can give up the betting initiative on the flop without making it too difficult for ourselves?

    @NEO There is some merit to exploiting typical live players because their ranges are so wide and weak. This allows us to bluff with more of our zero equity hands. Vs solid ranges and solid villains, we can usually go for 2 streets and checking the flop 100% can be cool. to induce bluffs and thin protection bets. Vs these guys, I often go for check/bet/bet. Vs loose passive live villains, often we can lean towards bet/bet/check, or bet/check/bet. Sometimes even bet/bet/bet even though we are going to be unbalanced. And when we check with T high on a Kxx flop, obvious we are just check-folding. We can't try to win every pot as the PFR. But it's not like the V's auto bet when we check. If they do, then we have incredibly easy check every time we have any pair. Also your question in regards to positions... usually when we are in postion vs a PFC, we are up against one of the blinds or a limper, which skews their range to wide and weak, and this actually incentivizes us to cbet more.
    by 1NEO
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