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Interesting spot.. to call or not to call?

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I took notes last night of some hands I played in a 2-5 100-300 buy in game at a local casino in LA. Most of the players call way too many raises pre with hands that don't have the correct implied odds. I got into a situation that I think is really close.. but my normal philosophy is if there is a close decision then I usually give the tie to a call since that will give me a more "action" appearance..

I overlimp in late middle position with 44 and a girl in the co raises to 15 of her 45 stack. I proceed to see 4 callers and then its on me. Do I call the ten? Do I fold. she only has 30 dollars left and normally in this spot you wan't to flop a set against her tight range with more than say 12x the raise to make it profitable. My initial thoughts were she probably didn't have a premium hand because with such a short stack why wouldn't she just go all in with 3 limpers in the pot already. Also almost no one was three bet isolating and since everyone called no one else is that strong either.. So no AA no KK and probably middle pair or even some kind of SC she wanted to build a pot with she could play in position.

So I actually have a pretty good seat. If everyone checks to her I am last to act and can see what happens and then act accordingly. I thought that since it was only 10 dollars to win at least 70 and with a potential albeit not necessarily from her I could get that magic 12x pot. Would you have called, raised or folded?

Let's get some reaction and then I will tell you what happened.. I think this type of situation really only applies to the smaller buy in lower limit games. I am certain that if this was a bigger game even say a 5/5 game .. one of the other players would have isolated her little raise to get it heads up. You have to keep in mind that most of these players don't like to commit a lot of chips preflop and therefore do not isloate.



  • WillWay Posts: 35Member
    Hi Wendy-
    I run into this situation quite a bit in the 1/2, and 1/3 games I play in all the time. I know it appears to be in bad form to call w/o the implied odds from the initial raiser being so short, but what about the other players? I think that loose passive games in this spot can be profitable....the question is how often will others pay off when you hit the set in a multiway here in this particular game?

    Overall it should be a fold situation, but maybe the call w/ loose passive opponents in a special circumstance if they are total stations, and call down frequently with light holdings. I'd only call here knowing that it was multiway with deeper stacks and willing callers, and auto-muck if the others do isoraise.

    Good post and food for thought...thanks WendySmile

  • ILYA Posts: 129Subscriber
    I would suggest that playing 100-300 2/5 is detrimental to your overall game. #playfullstack
  • Fish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    I have minimal, if any, experience playing a short stack. I'm usually a minimum of 100bb deep......

    With that said, If I am closing the action and have a chance to see this flop 5 ways for another 10, I cannot really see a reason not to. Your hand will be easy to play from this point on and I say go for it.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    Zach Z-H said

    I have minimal, if any, experience playing a short stack. I'm usually a minimum of 100bb deep......

    With that said, If I am closing the action and have a chance to see this flop 5 ways for another 10, I cannot really see a reason not to. Your hand will be easy to play from this point on and I say go for it.
    I agree with Zach. Not only are you getting 7:1 in immediate odds, but your hand is so easy to play going forward that it would be difficult to mess up post-flop.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    So I called as you all noted that with last action and a hand that can flop well. flop comes 8 6 4 it checks to me I check preflop rasier goes all in and next to act reraises to 60 (yep a min raise). he has about 200 left. everyone folds to me and with that I back raise to 200 and guy in lp goes all in.

    I really don't remember the river but the turn was another 4!. I won the hand obviously.. but I didn't need the last 4 as my set was good already. The preflop raiser had 33 and the lp caller had 10s that he overplayed post flop.

    So this really got me thinking. normally this really shouldnt have happened. If I was the guy with 10s I certainly would have threebet the short stack to just go heads up. I think that most decent players would do this. But since the player pool at this level is so passive that they trap themselves. I would like to get Bart's comment but I think at the lower levels there may be room to call with implied odd hands with multi way pots because there are so many players that will overplay their value hands and you can stack a field player as well as the preflop raiser.

    I don't think this is as much the case when you move up but when I see player after player limp with AA or KK and overplay or this bozo with the 10s.. The guy last week with the QQs when I shoved on the flop, he called too..

  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 578Subscriber
    I encounter this spot a lot in the 2-3 300 max game I play in with various short stacks...At a normal table this is fine to call IMO. The hand is obviously easy to play postflop and you will get a good read from each of the players act after the PFR'er acts..I think on average you will make enough money when you flop a 4.
  • Hey Wendy,

    If you are using 12x remember you need to make that from the total pot not just off of the preflop raiser's stack. So as long as you can win $120 your call is fine. You are calling $10 to win $70 immediately. If you flop a set do you think you can win another $50? I would.

  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Whatever else happens in the hand , calling 2 more big blinds pre can't possibly be that big of a mistake. I might even iso when it gets back to me as we has a pur and the pfr doesn't appear to.
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