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3bet KK OOP with flopped Ace

We start this hand about $1400 effective at 2/5. Villain in game is somewhat reg-ish, young guy, not much to say about him. He doesn’t seem particularly loose or tight, or particularly aggressive or passive. Maybe a tiny bit towards the loose and aggressive side.

Villain straddles button. SB calls. Hero flats KK in BB. Reason for doing this is there were a couple guys to my left that were opening a lot and often getting flatted, so I felt like it was a good spot for a limp RR to build a pot. Otherwise I think straddler on button will raise fairly often. Folds to button who raises to $50. SB folds. I go small, $160. I just felt like villain’s range was wide enough and my hand strong enough that I didn’t mind giving a good price to try to get lots of calls. Villain calls.

Flop: A72r

What’s our plan? I don’t think that villain’s going to bluff such a static ace high board all that often, so i don’t see tremendous value in check/calling. But I do think I need to call at least once if I check and he bets.

My question, however, is that since we block AK.... is there any merit in either (1) planning a triple barrel, or (2) planning to check it down and then x/r flop or turn if he bets either/continue big on next street?
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Comments

  • Beatsme Posts: 389Subscriber
    edited November 14
    I don't like a triple barrell... that's for sure.

    I think my approach would be to try and get 1 big street of value here. I would prob check the flop and hope he checks it back... which i think will happen a decent amount. I prob make a big bet ott. Like 260.... make it look polarizing. Villain is a young looking "regish" type??? He prob wont fold 99-QQ for one bet so dont make it small. River should prob go check check if he does have this type of hand.

    If he bets otf well its gonna come down to a read type thing but i would lean toward folding...
    If he raises the turn im folding.
    If he bets otr im folding.

    I hate the limp reraise by the way. I think it turns our hand face up even to players who dont really think that much about poker. I just think you need a very good reason to use it for your strong value hands.
  • pocketzeroes Posts: 147Subscriber
    I mostly limit limp reraises from the blinds (especially big blind) when button straddles. Because I'm getting such a good price to complete on my big blind, I kinda want to be able to protect my limping range there - I also occasionally make this move with weaker hands. I don't think we can easily get value from 99-QQ since AK is such a huge part of my perceived range. Also, AT+ and Axs I think is a big part of villain's range, IMO (hence me thinking a double or triple barrel can be profitable).
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 1,696Subscriber
    I look at this hands as 2 smaller bets. How you do those bets depends on the villain's tendencies.

    X, B, B
    B, X, B
    X, B, B
    B, B, X

    How would you play AK here? AA here? Is your opponent even aware that you can balance your ranges? How does he see you?


  • QuantumSurfer Posts: 49Subscriber
    I'm not a proponent of the l/rr especially vs semi-decent thinking players or better, mainly because it's not standard (for me at least), so it's difficult to get a sense of our perceived range. I also see the move get lots of folds pre in my games since a large portion of players do this with just KK+. In my player pool, the l/rr might be better as a bluff in fact. The move just tends to shut down action.

    Anyways, once we see this desert of a flop, I think I'd lean towards a check, expecting it to get checked through plenty (I'd check my TP here too frequently). V might pick up second pair or a draw OTT, giving us something to extract value from at that point.
  • pocketzeroes Posts: 147Subscriber
    I know that limp reraises at one point used to always be aces, but I don't think that's at all the case anymore in the player pool. Like I definitely see them happen a fair amount with AK and QQ+ as well as weaker hands/bluffs. I think my range is probably perceived to be strong, but also somewhat balanced - I do have bluffs here (suited wheel aces and hands like T8s).... Anyway, my true range here from BB is probably mostly QQ+/AK/AQs (which I'd mix between opening and limp rr, generally preferring to open), some suited wheel aces and occasionally other random hands like middle pocket pairs and middle SCs or gap SCs (especially if the button straddle raises).... But I think I have too many Ax hands in my range to really think I can get two streets of value vs anything worse except draws - however there are no draws. So *maybe* I can get one street on the river if it checks down.

    Action goes, I check, BTN checks. Turn is another brickish card - a 9 I think - completing rainbow. I check again, and BTN bets $140... I hate folding here, but I also feel like this is a spot that BTN just continues to check without at least an ace. So I'm considering an x/r and following it up with a big bet on river - I think AT-AJ, maybe AQ will have a very tough time calling if I do...
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 1,696Subscriber
    Only time I can see a limp reraise being correct is if the someone to your left is agro already and will raise limpers AND those to his left will call anyways so you trap a bunch of people between AND you aren't deep. So your raise makes it absolutely incorrect for anyone to call.

    Like 1/2 for example with $200 stacks.

    You limp, limp, agro raises $15, call, call, call, you back raise $60....... Usually you will get it heads up or will win the pot right there. But this scenario is rare and the agro has to be raising a hell of a lot. An agro might be a guy who always "juices the pot up" for example.

    2/5 I don't think I ever limp reraised AA.

    1/2 you can get away with all sorts of shit and get some fool to call the large back raise and stack off TPGK.

    So you should always be raising AA in 2/5 and not limping.
  • pocketzeroes Posts: 147Subscriber
    edited November 15
    I understand that limp reraising is often seen by good players as a fishy play, and I understand why. Regardless, I do think that in some circumstances it can be very profitable. And again, I mostly only ever do this from the blinds after a button straddle. These pots are raised very often - often people will raise to like 25 to try to prevent the button from making a big raise to squeeze a bunch of limpers. When there are a bunch of limpers, the button will often raise a pretty wide range to like $70-80 as a squeeze. And if nobody raises, it’s really not the end of the world for KK; there’s often plenty of opportunity for post flop value. Furthermore, I think QQ/KK are somewhat better hands than AA to limp reraise simply because AA blocks half of the Ax hands which might raise pre. Also, this particular game is often pretty soft, and because of that I play a lot of hands and open pretty wide so I naturally have somewhat of a bluffy image, and my opens/3bets are probably called more often than the same bets from TAGs/nits... In tougher games, I’m definitely less likely to do this.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,132Subscriber
    edited November 15
    LRR can be profitable if you’re doing with the correct range and frequency taking table dynamic into consideration but if you’re only going to show up with the top 5% hands then yeah it becomes fishy

    AP
    I doubt you’ll get too many Ax hands to fold when you take a weird line like x and then x/r especially in lower stakes since no one would check a strong hand twice or very few will.
    Call turn and let’s see what he does OTR, can always FPS depending on sizing and whether he knows where the fold button is BUT I would still consider folding if he brings out the guns on a blank.
  • maphacks Posts: 1,789Subscriber
    edited November 17
    I don't like a triple barrell bluff. I don't think he will fold Ax often enough without reads. check/calling seems the most standard but I think my opponent is good, I will cbet to rep bluffs. it's hard to float but he will call any pair and won't turn those into bluffs when you check turn and river. so my line would be bet, x/f, x/f vs good opponents and x/c, x/decide vs bad opponents.

    against very specific opponents, betting small twice is also good. like 30% pot.

    I like limp/rr with the right dynamics and especially when you do it with other hands with good playability as well. Axs/87s etc.
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