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Best Approach with this draw in Multiway Pot

2/5
Hero has huge winning image sitting with over 5k. Just stacked utg villain in a 3bet pot within the last 30 minutes before this hand. Utg villain is a tighter reg who for the most part avoids big pots with me without having something.

Game is playing loose with 4-5 callers preflop.

Utg $1,000
Hero Utg+1 $5k
Utg+2 $700

UTG Raises to $20. Hero calls utg+1 with 6 6 Utg+2, Cutoff and Button Call.

Pot $105

Flop: 3 4 5

Utg bets $55, Hero?? Calls, utg+2 calls, 2 folds.

Pot: $270

Turn: 9

Utg bets $160 hero?? folds. utg+2 calls.

Just to show rest of action

river: 10 utg shoves utg+2 folds.

What is a better approach with a hand in this spot on flop with 3 players behind? I love my hand against utg villain but when I just call I lose a lot of value to callers behind. Do we expect to fold out players behind with a raise if they hold A or the K
If so what sizing do we like here?

Then as played do we like a turn fold or another option?
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Comments

  • QuantumSurfer Posts: 96Subscriber
    I like the call OTF. Our draws are both obvious and not to the nuts, save for 2 SF outs and a runner-runner boat/quads. I think raising here would be spew, mostly because the rest of the field still gets a chance to act. Folding out the A would be difficult on this wheel board.
  • bballwiz Posts: 52Subscriber
    Which is true, but at the same point I can see a flop raise getting UTG off a dry over pair, and getting a caller behind. So I go from needing to make my hand to win, to actually value betting against someone with a better draw.

    I had a similar hand which I posted a few weeks ago where I was stuck in the middle between a better flush draw and someone with top pair. I would like to avoid that scenario here of being stuck in the middle between a better pair than mine and a better draw than mine.
  • CycleV Posts: 568Subscriber
    Would a raise get all V's to fold? That's optimistic. I think a set would just raise the flop and start charging draws right away, so if you want to rep a set you have to do it then. But with so many people left to act behind you, I wouldn't like that at all. UTG cbet, you raise, there's 3 people behind you who can wake up with a hand.

    fwiw in my 2/5 there's a lot of 3! so I actually fold pre.
  • DrSpace Posts: 708Subscriber
    edited January 21
    I like your play. You really don't have a high equity combo when a competent player bets that flop first to act with players behind you (whose stacks you don't give but it matters a lot on the flop). Your relative position is bad. The flop bet is small enough that you can't fold at that point. While having two super-nut outs is nice they have poor implied odds vs a good player. If we raise flop we clean up our equity at best but might easily get pushed off of it too. This hand could be played quite differently if we closed the action, e.g. if we were button here. Then we could put a lot of pressure on the PFR who rarely has a nutty combo even leading into the field. And if we get it heads up we should generally have sufficient equity. Closing the action, even raising the PFR and getting 3! at least should clear the field. This hand could also be played more aggressively 100bb or less deep from any position I think.

    Its an interesting spot where I might be inclined to play more aggressively in your position if the description of the PFR were different. I might raise the flop anyway but I think your play is best. You saw a cheap turn, your 3 way and have poor equity now. You also don't describe UTG2 and their tendencies matter a lot too.
  • maphacks Posts: 1,937Subscriber
    edited January 21
    I would fold the flop. his cbetting range from UTG against three players on such a board should contain very few bluffs and he should have mostly eoverpairs with or without clubs. occasionally he has some overcards+flushdraw and he will either barrell us off the hand or make the best hand by the river. I neither want to call down on blanks, nor do I want to call if I make a flush. additionally, if someone behind calls, we are kind of dead. someone usually has an overpair and the caller has a better flushdraw.
    can't see this beeing a +ev call OTF. if at all, I would prefer a raise I guess
    by 1Clock
  • DrSpace Posts: 708Subscriber
    edited January 21
    maphacks said:
    I would fold the flop. his cbetting range from UTG against three players on such a board should contain very few bluffs and he should have mostly eoverpairs with or without clubs. occasionally he has some overcards+flushdraw and he will either barrell us off the hand or make the best hand by the river. I neither want to call down on blanks, nor do I want to call if I make a flush. additionally, if someone behind calls, we are kind of dead. someone usually has an overpair and the caller has a better flushdraw.
    can't see this beeing a +ev call OTF. if at all, I would prefer a raise I guess
    maphacks said:
    I would fold the flop. his cbetting range from UTG against three players on such a board should contain very few bluffs and he should have mostly eoverpairs with or without clubs. occasionally he has some overcards+flushdraw and he will either barrell us off the hand or make the best hand by the river. I neither want to call down on blanks, nor do I want to call if I make a flush. additionally, if someone behind calls, we are kind of dead. someone usually has an overpair and the caller has a better flushdraw.
    can't see this beeing a +ev call OTF. if at all, I would prefer a raise I guess
    In my experience at 2/5 we capture our equity well enough to call this flop sizing. Otherwise agree totally. In tougher and /or higher game folding preflop mostly.
  • CycleV Posts: 568Subscriber
    My first thought was to fold the flop as well, but the straight outs are good, and a 2 gives someone the idiot end. And 2 of the flush outs could net us a stack. Any other card on the turn, or any big aggression behind us otf, and we have to let it go.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,020Subscriber
    edited January 24
    Either raise the flop to put pressure on likely OP if you think villain is on nitty side plus fold out better draws behind or just fold.

    Calling is the worst option IMO, because our draw is garbage.
    If we hit a set - it's 4 to a str8, flush outs are super obvious and might not be good ESPECIALLY if we let people come in behind by just flatting - which they very likely will.
    Even 2o is not that of a great card to get paid either, because unless UTG has AA he can easily put us on some Ax (especially if he doesn't have A - or simply forgets to check for it)

    So why are we calling? To hit 2 str8 flush outs? vs A high flush...

    I actually lean towards raising and getting a live read on how comfortable he is calling our raise to determine if I'm gonna blast him off something like TT-JJ on the turn (especially if a A or K comes) or take a free card and let us realize our equity.
    Even if he calls - we're close to flipping vs something like JJ+
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