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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

3 bet and hit trips?

5/10 $2k cap at horseshoe Chicago

V $2300 eff Hero covers.

V just moved to main from feeder no history no read on V = bearded 60ish white nerdy guy

Hero open to $30 EP with Qh Qd; V raises big to $220 from CO and Hero calls.

Pot $440,

Flop Ts Tc 5d.

Hero: x; V $200; Hero raise to $500; V calls

[$1,440]

Turn 2h. Hero bets $700. V shoves $1600ish

Hero?

Tagged:

Comments

  • QuantumSurfer Posts: 137Subscriber
    What are we trying to accomplish with the c/r on the flop? That's such a dry board, not many worse hands will call us. It certainly eliminates all of V's AK/Ax bluffs, even JJ starts getting iffy. Seems like we turn our hand into a bluff unnecessarily. If we're going nuts and playing so fast, then calling the shove should be simple. The error is our flop c/r and continued aggression OTT. Hard to find a hand we beat when V shoves knowing he'll almost always get called.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    edited February 2018
    Hero does not raise flop. Yuck. If villain bets 1/4 pot maybe raise fold but not here or with these stacks. Even then it feels like you induced. Just call. The $700 bet on the turn us theoretically ok but the way most described villain's play you are lighting money on fire. I would be grudgingly moving forward with KK.

    You can snap fold the shove vs most villains or call and pray for a Q.

    Perhaps we are missing something -- what do you think is going on with the villain's range?
  • justfourfun Posts: 184Subscriber
    I thought and still think the Vs preflop raise was indicative of a fish. 7x my open? No one else in pot? It was as if he was copying what he saw by other players. The flop c/r is for value. When V calls my x/r otf i think im ahead. Turn brick so bet for value again or equity protection
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    justfourfun said:
    I thought and still think the Vs preflop raise was indicative of a fish. 7x my open? No one else in pot? It was as if he was copying what he saw by other players. The flop c/r is for value. When V calls my x/r otf i think im ahead. Turn brick so bet for value again or equity protection
    I think I have never seen this line played as you suggest. People Play AA, KK and AK this way. AK is mostly gone when you ✔️⬆️. True nothing is played this way but if it is something thats what it is.

    Some crazy players maybe but it is part of a multi-hand pattern.

    A typical fish has AA, KK or AK.

    The ✔️⬆️ for value is not sound by any analysis. What calls that you beat?
  • justfourfun Posts: 184Subscriber
    Calls by JJ or 22-99? AK? AQ? AJ?
  • justfourfun Posts: 184Subscriber
    One of Vs hole cards was 7s
  • Jack7777 Posts: 655Subscriber
    I'm leery of paired boards. I can't see why he is calling, raising and shoving against the hands you are repping. What recalling range does he give you? Then when you c/r the flop, what does he put you on? I see you just mentioned the 7s. I won't comment further. I wouldn't play the hand that way.
  • QuantumSurfer Posts: 137Subscriber
    So V made a bad pf move with T7o? Good for him. I'd say the average reg, especially one playing 5/T makes many more errors pre-flop than post-flop. Given this line, our actions eliminated all the hands we beat from V's range. Think through the questions Jack7777 posed.

    If V made a huge pf raise trying to steal your open (one from EP if he's position cognizant) and you called, he's not going to be happy. Odds of a random player wanting to spew off & test a new table in a bloated 3bet pot are low, especially on a flop like this.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    justfourfun said:
    One of Vs hole cards was 7s
    And? This is the very definition of being results oriented.
  • justfourfun Posts: 184Subscriber
    so i folded to the shove and turned up the QQ and said "i guess these are no good". V started to muck then pulled back both cards and separately checked them. the second card he checked was the 7s and he turned it up. The Ts was on the flop so i guess V raised from $30 to $220 heads up preflop with 7 T off. So the consensus I am hearing is that it was bad play on my part to put $1,200 into this pot post-flop. check call the flop and then check the turn. idk.. then when fish bets the turn I fold??? I did not think he had AA or KK until such time as he shoved the turn - then I did include those two hands in his range. I really started thinking AT suited when I folded. If I think I am best otf why not x/raise? Regardless, I do now think the turn bet is... what was the phrase... "lighting money on fire"
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    edited February 2018
    justfourfun said:
    so i folded to the shove and turned up the QQ and said "i guess these are no good". V started to muck then pulled back both cards and separately checked them. the second card he checked was the 7s and he turned it up. The Ts was on the flop so i guess V raised from $30 to $220 heads up preflop with 7 T off. So the consensus I am hearing is that it was bad play on my part to put $1,200 into this pot post-flop. check call the flop and then check the turn. idk.. then when fish bets the turn I fold??? I did not think he had AA or KK until such time as he shoved the turn - then I did include those two hands in his range. I really started thinking AT suited when I folded. If I think I am best otf why not x/raise? Regardless, I do now think the turn bet is... what was the phrase... "lighting money on fire"
    after you ✔️⬆️ you are at the bottom of your range and don't beat anything. So the hand is a major outlier. Villain is clearly on tilt or a major crazy player. You are new to the table so maybe this was unclear. Nonetheless the post flop line is not a good one. If we thought he was this out of line can just open jam preflop or take other highly exploitative lines.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    DrSpace said:
    justfourfun said:
    so i folded to the shove and turned up the QQ and said "i guess these are no good". V started to muck then pulled back both cards and separately checked them. the second card he checked was the 7s and he turned it up. The Ts was on the flop so i guess V raised from $30 to $220 heads up preflop with 7 T off. So the consensus I am hearing is that it was bad play on my part to put $1,200 into this pot post-flop. check call the flop and then check the turn. idk.. then when fish bets the turn I fold??? I did not think he had AA or KK until such time as he shoved the turn - then I did include those two hands in his range. I really started thinking AT suited when I folded. If I think I am best otf why not x/raise? Regardless, I do now think the turn bet is... what was the phrase... "lighting money on fire"
    after you ✔️⬆️ you are at the bottom of your range and don't beat anything. So the hand is a major outlier. Villain is clearly on tilt or a major crazy player. You are new to the table so maybe this was unclear. Nonetheless the post flop line is not a good one. If we thought he was this out of line can just open jam preflop or take other highly exploitative lines.
    Good fold.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,001Subscriber
    edited February 2018
    I think your range assumption for a 22bb 3bet from an older guy is way too lose. there is an argument to be made that's not AA all too often but 22-99, AJ or even AQ is not reasonable IME. he is heavily skewed towards AK,(QQ), maybe JJ and some KK/AA. that's my range assumption without anymore infos than you gave us.

    flop I call. not too many cards we are scared of and his gii range is nuts only. very very occasionally JJ.

    no idea how to proceed OTT after your flopraise. probably check and see what sizing he uses, call a small bet, fold to shove/bigger than say 40-50%.

    main "problem/mistake" is your wrong (IME) preflop range assumption.
    by 1DrSpace
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