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Angleshoot, rules violation, bad etiquette or OK

(Not really strategy but I couldn’t find an appropriate topic.)

I actually didn’t do this tonight, but I thought about it and wondered what you all think of it....

Three of us at the turn in 2/3 game in a casino. I have just turned quads. I’m first to act and check. MP checks. Button bets $80. I flat. MP pushes for $215. Now button is tanking. Counting out chips and thinking.

Obviously, I want him to call, so I was thinking about trying to make him think I was going to fold. Maybe just taking the chip off my cards and holding them, as if preparing to muck.

It seemed maybe a little bit shady, like I’d be acting out of turn, so I didnt do it.

But what do you think?


  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,762Subscriber
    i think small subtle things are fine. big things like hey man ill check if u call or like exaggeratedly do any action, i think you are fine throwing reverse tells.

    Shit one thing I learned to do is when someone goes to grab their chips quick i follow again quick with them. it is amazing how often they slow down hahahah.
  • maphacks Posts: 1,976Subscriber
    edited February 2018
    Don't do it. How would you feel when you cbet 3ways, next guy tanks and last to act signals he wants to fold?
    by 1fozbo
  • Beatsme Posts: 574Subscriber
    yeah bad etiquette... don't do that
  • Jesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber
    Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with giving subtle reverse tells. I wouldn't do it to a very rec player, partially because it's not necessarily and partially because it's not nice for them. But like people aren't entitled to know your action, so feel free to fake em out.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,762Subscriber
    I mean you are just maybe grabbing your chips too see if you can get a reaction type stuff right?

  • DrSpace Posts: 713Subscriber
    keep making quads -- don't angle
  • justfourfun Posts: 162Subscriber
    Makes you look like a goof. Not effective and not worth it
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    edited February 2018
    I thinking doing subtle things like takings a chip off your card is fine but i wouldn't over sell it.

    that said I don't think there is anything wrong with this etiquette wise, at least concerning the button, unless you literally trying to fold before it's your turn knowing you can't. Nobody if forcing this dude to look at your and make a decision based how you are acting. I just think it's unlikely to work and agree it makes you look like a goof.

    I do think it's bad etiquette to MP tho. He is still a player in the hand who had to make a decision without the information that you may or may not be folding and now you are giving that information to the BTN. Yea it doesn't make a huge difference when we have quads but still, if anyone has the right to be angry here i think it's MP, if BTN makes a bad live read that's on him.
  • MXRider Posts: 53Subscriber
    Personally, I wouldn't do anything that would make me question my own integrity. That goes for everything in my life and not just poker. I would just sit back while giving no info whatsoever until button makes his decision.
  • Sonny Posts: 325Subscriber
    You are there to exploit people, using your intellect, to profit monetarily from them.
    I see nothing wrong with it ethically.
    The other posters bring up a valid point though. You look like a Goof and give a pretty big tell, when you fake the fold then make a big bet on the river.
    I mean you were about to fold for $135 more, but now you're jamming when the card that probably doesn't change much hits? To me thats probably as big a tell as the guys who give speeches before they act...
  • pepguardiola Posts: 21Subscriber
    edited February 2018
    I brought this up in Slack but I’ll repeat it here, maybe you’ll find it useful.

    I had a hand this Friday where I had AA. Guy raises in early position and I 3! immediately to his left, he called. Flop was J high, check 2/3rds pot call. Turn brings backdoor flush draw, check bet 2/3rds call. River brings in backdoor flush, he leads into me for the same size as my turn bet. Smells like a block bet to me. I shove for 2X his river bet (had him covered), he tanks for a min and I realize I’m in a situation I’ve always thought about. I 100% know I’m good here (I don’t have the NF blocker). He’s giving me the staredown and I’m afraid I’m losing him.

    I called the clock on him. A minute is short, and this isn’t a tournament. But I’ve always thought doing this would make a call much more likely, which is why I did it. The guy called and stormed off in anger saying he didn’t think I’d be bluffing with a hand that good, lol

    Anyway the Slack comments were generally that calling the clock to influence the action was unsporting. I’m still chewing on it, but @MXRider’s sentiment strikes a chord with me.

    In your situation, I think it’s sort of silly. I wouldn’t do it simply because I’m very mechanical in my betting, but I think it’s within bounds. If you got into territory where you wereinfluencing thedealer orsomething likethat
    then it’s pretty clearly wrong to me.

    What’s common between your situation and mine is that we’re considering influencing the actions of a player facing a decision in a hand, and the action isn’t on us. What’s different is that I’ve made an aggressive claim to the pot, am the only other player in the hand, am at the river with no further action possible, and have an undisputed right to call the clock.
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