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1/3 Click-Raised x 2

Both opponents have been playing passive/fishy overall. V#1/H#1 (late 40s female) is playing a bit tighter & letting hands go earlier/more often than V#2/H#2 (older guy) who is quite sticky. No super relevant history otherwise.

If we call these raises to evaluate turns/rivers, what is our plan with less than a PSB behind? I feel calling/evaluating is a no brainer deeper-stacked, but spewy @ this SPR. Thanks.

Hand #1 ($250 effective)

H (CO): Kc Jc

V#1 limps $3, fold x 2, call x 2, H r $25, fold x 3, V#1 calls, fold x 2

F ($54): Kd 6h 5s

V x, H b $40, V r $80, H ???

Hand #2 ($450 effective)

H (UTG): Qh Qd

BTN straddles $6, fold x 2, H r $30, V#2 calls, fold x 5

F ($63): 6d 5s 2h

H b $35, V c $35

T ($133): Td

H b $85, V r $170, H ???
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Comments

  • Acidhauss Posts: 281Subscriber
    Hand 1

    I think flop is a mistake in terms of bet sizing against a weaker player. I would bet smaller say 40-50% of the pot or check.
    My reasoning is as follows; your hand doesnt require very much protection at all, there are no flush draws and much of his/her range is drawing dead against you.

    You are incentivised I think to check and allow the weaker player to make a mistake on a later street either by bluffing with a zero equity hand, or calling down with a weaker hand on later streets.

    You will do very well against weaker players in heads up pots if you play your hand versus their range. Understanding where they often have zero to little equity against you and playing your hand accordingly will result in winning many more pots off these kind of folk.

    As played versus the raise I would call. Facing a very large turn bet I would fold

    Hand 2

    I think I would just fold the turn facing the min check-raise, which tends to be a very strong line.
  • Sonny Posts: 123Subscriber
    edited February 14
    Most players at this level don't like raise unless they have two pair +, maybe some "looser" players at this level will raise with TPTK. So when we bet and get raised with one pair we're usually in bad shape.
    I think you are correct about stack depth, but stacks being short isn't the worst problem in the world. On the one hand since we're so shallow you're right, we can't call and then evaluate. On the other hand when you face these bets you're usually in bad shape so not piecing off saves money since you're never going to bet them off of a hand even if you were deeper.

    I think hand #1 is a fold all day. Espically a since it was a check raise.

    I think hand #2 is a little more difficult to determine. A lot of players at this level like to put a pre flop raiser on AK and leave them there. So he could have called the flop with big cards and is now betting a 10. Somewhat unlikely but I've seen it before. I think he could also have an overpair here himself, probably not AA but I see players just calling in position with JJ a fair amount. If you were $250 eff in this spot I'd go with it. Since we're deeper here I think I would seriously consider a fold. Most players at $1/3 don't put $170 into the pot without (what they think is) a strong hand.

    I also disagree about betting smaller on the flop or checking hand #1. At this level its all about value! Get it where you can. I think the concept of small sizing on the flop has little to no place in games $2/5 and smaller. At this level since we are very rarely bluffing, we don't need to bet small to get a better price when we are bluffing.
    If we were bluffing/value betting 50/50 then sure smaller sizing on the flop saves us money on our bluffs. But since the bluff/value bet ratio is more like 10/90, than I think the small flop sizing is costing a lot of smaller stakes players money.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,519Subscriber
    edited February 14
    I would fold hand 1 cause our TP is pretty bad for this action. But it is spots like his where exploitation comes.

    Hand 2 I would lean more to call but that's obv. But both villains are recs and both raises are value raises from villains

    I like ur siizng pre and post.
  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 758Member
    neverlearn2 said:
    I would fold hand 1 cause our TP is pretty bad for this action. But it is spots like his where exploitation comes.

    Hand 2 I would lean more to call but that's obv. But both villains are recs and both raises are value raises from villains

    I like ur siizng pre and post.
    Yeah, I was more tempted to call H#2 as there are many combo draws that came on that card (while H#1, raise-worthy draws are basically impossible), but villain's passivity til now led me to discount those alot. I just didn't think it would go check/check all that much on river either despite getting a good price in a vacuum.
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