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Getting raised on flop, call with AA?

So 2 V’s 1 V don’t know. Main V kinda bad. Very loose pre can be aggressive post isn’t afraid to gamble.

H has been 3-betting not a lot but a good amount. Have shown down hands that are not premiums when I 3-bet. Not sure if either V pays attention.

2.2k effective

5/5/10 rock. Rock is UTG with V1. Limps around to me in SB main V limps in CO. I have AA74 1 suit (not relevant but no hearts). V1 makes it 55 UTG. Couple folds 2 callers. I raise to 280. V1 calls 1 folds V calls.

Flop(~800) Kh7d2h. H bets 550. V1 folds rather quickly (if V1 raised me here I’m basically snap folding). V2 goes all in for around 1900. Back to me?

So... reason this is a dilemma is because this V is always raising KK in the cutoff over a couple limpers. Maybe once in a blue moon he limps like KK83 rainbow but mostly all of his KK even bad ones are raising in the CO. Main V’s raising range is a lot different than of V1 raised me here.

Now with me having no hearts, blocking 2-pair (and having good equity against 2-pair combos) and blocking 77 and the fact that V just doesn’t have KK here a lot, do we call?


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Comments

  • Dusty Posts: 233Subscriber
    its a pot size jam, you only need 33% equity right? I think you have to call if you bet the flop for all the reasons you say. Gonna be a high variance spot but that is how it goes PLO style.
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,309Pro
    So the reason to raise when you did and create a low SPR spot with a hand with good showdown value is to make it easier to make a commitment decision on the flop for you and the Vs. SP~2 you need ~40% equity to stack off. If his range is Ahh,(KK,77,22) you have 35%.. vs Ahh,(77,22),(K7,K2),(KK,77,22) you have 31%. If its Ahh,(77,22) you have just under 40%. If its 77,22 you are screwed. There are for sure plenty of players that will play 77 but its such a small part of their range.

    All that syntax above uses commas - if we say ((KK,77),(K7)):Ahh - you are in trouble - 15%. But would he ever do this with a pair and nut flush draw? You have 40% vs that.

    You are only ahead if ahead if he does this with a naked flush draw.

    I cant decide if I like your flop bet or not. I would normally bet smaller, like 300 on this board. More than just its staticish nature - not that many will just jam a flush draw so if we get raised Im thinking its at least pair plus flush draw. Problem is at these low SPR you are pretty much committed for sure getting (1900-550)/(800-2*1900) so you need just under 30% with no more betting and you have that vs so much of his range and then lets never forget BullShit equity.

    Hate how your hand is face up.

    Based on "Main V kinda bad. Very loose pre can be aggressive post isn’t afraid to gamble." I think I call


    While you want low SPR with strong showdown value hands, this is absolutely a spot where chasing some $ev may not be worth the variance. I dont even hate a fold pre if you really want to play safe from the blinds, but I would likely have called the 55. By just calling we could still get into tough spots with now SPR=>10. At that SPR OOP you need to flop really well to continue - you are basically set mining, but so you fold most of the time. No big deal.
  • z7 Posts: 225Subscriber
    The V’s in the hand is what made me raise pre. They are going to be calling with very questionable hands and also folding flops incorrectly. Everybody that limped so far was terrible. V who raised doesn’t seem good. “Nit-fish” is a good way to describe I think. I expect him to call with JJ KK or QQ and fold all flops he misses. Against better players I do not raise here.


    I think flop is a mandatory bet though. And if PFR raised I’m comfortable folding.

    @freelunch why advocate betting 300 here? What are we accomplishing with that bet on this board with our exact hand? I wouldn’t expect a single 7 to fold for 300. And if called what do we do on any turn? Although it is a static board our hand isn’t at all nutted and it can’t really improve. And on any turn our hand goes way down in value.

  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,309Pro
    I was not really advocating 300 - I meant it when I said "I cant decide". I feel like I need to think more about it. With your additional read it seems more clear that they make enough mistakes you might as well get them to commit. I am probably applying a stereotype that does not apply, by that I mean a lot of the people that I play with that fit your description dont bluff enough - they just want to get there, so if they did raise after I bet smaller I would have a better read on their strength then if I bet so much that they feel committed and thus get in their whole range. Said another way, there is a point where villains feel committed and they often just jam at that point, and they also have a threshold below where they feel commited where they call and IF IF IF - we think we know that point then there is argument for betting less than the point where they feel committed because when we do that AND they shove it means they have a very strong hand. Thats pretty damm villain dependent thought and Im not sure it can really be justified absent knowledge of the villian.


    Getting back to pre your argument is in effect they play crap so you want to play low SPR spots with them for big money, Thats cool - nothing wrong with that but as long as you know the trade offs, but you dont want to create that low SPR spot then fold so if thats your plan it increases the argument for calling the last bet.

  • High__Rolla Posts: 775Subscriber
    FreeLunch said:
    Getting back to pre your argument is in effect they play crap so you want to play low SPR spots with them for big money, Thats cool - nothing wrong with that but as long as you know the trade offs, but you dont want to create that low SPR spot then fold so if thats your plan it increases the argument for calling the last bet.
    I agree with this comment. To me this seems like a pretty close spot on the flop. Perhaps whether you have the dry ace of hearts or not can decide. Call if you don't have it; fold if you do.
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