Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Hand review: My first PLO8 session

imrulhuda Posts: 10Subscriber
This was my first PLO8 session. It was in a charity poker event. Very loose setup. I played PLO with some of them in local casino.

1/2/5 PLO8.

Hand 1:

I started with 200. Stack 600. V is one of the worst players who is stuck 3000 already within half an hour.

Preflop: V raised to 15. I called with A 2 Q 6
Flop (30): 3 4 7. V leads 20. I call. (V knows me from local casino where I have a tight image)
Turn (70): A. V bets 40. I call.
River (150): Q. V bets 75. I snap call with top 2 with second nut low.

Result: He shows 256x for scoop.
Question: Was that a cooler or light call? Is there any point I could've played it differently.

Hand 2:

My Stack 275.

Preflop: V bets 10 from UTG. I make it 35 from UTG2 with A 2 K 10. MP2 calls. V calls.
Flop (110): 6 3 K. V leads 110. I shove for 240.
Result: He had JJTx with 2 diamond (That bad). He hits his diamond, I hit my low, ended up chopping.
Question: First, considering my stack size, was that a light 3-bet preflop? I think my flop shove is alright. Second, at what effective stack size (or SPR) I just flat the V's raise here?

Hand 3:

This is a very interesting hand.

Stack 700. V is a good reg. Plays 1/2/5 PLO, 2/5 NLH, 5/10 NLH in local casino. But never saw him in 5/5 or 5/10 PLO - so my guess is he is transitioning into PLO. But he is definitly new to PLO8. He was asking about low hands in some showdown, mostly for confirmation.

Preflop: V is in Button and made 10 button straddle. I call from MP2 with A 2 3 6. 4 more limpers. 6 way to the flop.
Flop (60): A 7 8. So, I flop nut low with FD. I check call V's bet of 45.
Turn (150): 4. I check call V's bet of 145.
My initial intention was to check-raise here b/c this is a great turn for me. Turn gave me additional outs. 5 will give me a straight to 7. But his almost pot size bet was very dodgy to me.
(Side note: I was watching a video of Bart where he says the power of 6 in this game. Its good that I realized that in my very first PLO8 session.)
River (440): A. I lead for 200. V tanked for 20 second and made the call.

result: I show 3 high flush for high and nut low. Villane looks at my 4 card for 20 second and looks at the board. Then shows K 10 and 2× 3× . I was quartred. (He thought I had a boat)

My thought about the hand:
First, I could've raised pre. But given that it is my first PLO8 session, I am happy with the limp too. I would've definitly opened if my suit was A high.
Second, This was my first monster flop (followed by a great turn) in PLO8 (nut low, TP and FD) and got carried away. I actually never put the effort to think how villane can have a better 2-way hand.

Questions:
First, Do you agree with my flop slow play?
Second, Do you agree with my turn play (inital idea of check-raise and later just calling). Now thinking back, he could've had 56 there for a straight. But he needs 23-56 to quarter me. Does he really checks his button straddle with 23-56? Moreover, even against a straight, I have my flush outs. So I am really not sure abut my check call here.
Third, most importantly, Do you agree with my river lead of 200 in a 440. Ofcourse, I was betting for value. But If I had checked, he would've bet the K high flush for almost pot size. Now thinking back, I was lucky he didn't have a boat and nutlow there. (But at the same time, does he really check his button straddle with A-2-3-6/7)
Fourth, Given the board paired, and we have an A in our hand, is there anyway we can turn our hand into bluff? Is that line of thinking necessary at all in PLO8 b/c nut-low is gonna made the crying call anyway.





Comments

  • BartBart Posts: 5,238AdministratorLeadPro
    Hands one and 2 are played find. You dont have to 3 bet preflop in hand 2 but it seems like the villain is absolutely awful so the play for value is a good one.

    Hand 3 I would probably bet the flop myself. I couldnt tell if the villain was competent on the button or not. TBH if he is competent most likely the river is a check with the worst flush and the ace pairing. He seems to be repping 23 along with you and can easily have a flush or boat too. Bart
  • High__Rolla Posts: 720Subscriber
    imrulhuda said:

    Hand 1:

    I started with 200. Stack 600. V is one of the worst players who is stuck 3000 already within half an hour.

    Preflop: V raised to 15. I called with A 2 Q 6
    Flop (30): 3 4 7. V leads 20. I call. (V knows me from local casino where I have a tight image)
    Turn (70): A. V bets 40. I call.
    River (150): Q. V bets 75. I snap call with top 2 with second nut low.

    Result: He shows 256x for scoop.
    Question: Was that a cooler or light call? Is there any point I could've played it differently.
    Cooler. You ran into the top of his range. You lose both directions to only 25xx. There are some opponents I play against that I would raise the river here based on the half-pot, half-pot sizings, but I think a call is reasonable. I can't imagine ever folding unless it was versus a super-nit, but this opponent was not described that way.
  • High__Rolla Posts: 720Subscriber
    imrulhuda said:

    Hand 2:

    My Stack 275.

    Preflop: V bets 10 from UTG. I make it 35 from UTG2 with A 2 K 10. MP2 calls. V calls.
    Flop (110): 6 3 K. V leads 110. I shove for 240.
    Result: He had JJTx with 2 diamond (That bad). He hits his diamond, I hit my low, ended up chopping.
    Question: First, considering my stack size, was that a light 3-bet preflop? I think my flop shove is alright. Second, at what effective stack size (or SPR) I just flat the V's raise here?

    I like the 3-bet preflop for value. You have a hand that can flop a decent high hand, so that you don't have to depend as much on the nut low, especially with your stack size. Your flop shove is standard at this stack size.. You have good equity versus his leading range, and want to dissuade the MP from calling behind with any equity that he has flopped.

    I would probably need an effective stack of at least $500 on the flop before I even consider something other than shoving. This guy's lead indicates he likes his hand, and you have probably 50-70% equity versus his range, so I prefer to GII as a favorite before the board gets scarier. And, a shove often folds out MP who could have diamonds, straight draw, K, etc., thus allowing your AK to more often win the high.
  • High__Rolla Posts: 720Subscriber
    imrulhuda said:

    Hand 3:

    This is a very interesting hand.

    Stack 700. V is a good reg. Plays 1/2/5 PLO, 2/5 NLH, 5/10 NLH in local casino. But never saw him in 5/5 or 5/10 PLO - so my guess is he is transitioning into PLO. But he is definitly new to PLO8. He was asking about low hands in some showdown, mostly for confirmation.

    Preflop: V is in Button and made 10 button straddle. I call from MP2 with A 2 3 6. 4 more limpers. 6 way to the flop.
    Flop (60): A 7 8. So, I flop nut low with FD. I check call V's bet of 45.
    Turn (150): 4. I check call V's bet of 145.
    My initial intention was to check-raise here b/c this is a great turn for me. Turn gave me additional outs. 5 will give me a straight to 7. But his almost pot size bet was very dodgy to me.
    (Side note: I was watching a video of Bart where he says the power of 6 in this game. Its good that I realized that in my very first PLO8 session.)
    River (440): A. I lead for 200. V tanked for 20 second and made the call.

    result: I show 3 high flush for high and nut low. Villane looks at my 4 card for 20 second and looks at the board. Then shows K 10 and 2× 3× . I was quartred. (He thought I had a boat)
    I would raise this hand preflop, but I understand your reason being new for not doing so. I would also bet this flop. You have the nut low with backup against being counterfeited, and on the high side you have top pair with a FD and backdoor SD. That is a strong hand that is likely to stay strong across various runouts. You also get the chance to freeroll a high-only hand like middle set.

    As played, your remaining stack size sets up well for a check/pot on the turn. So, I like the check, but once he bets, I am always potting here. If he has a high-only hand (unlikely), you get to freeroll him. If he also had the nut low, there are only a few very specific 4-card combos that have you in bad shape. In Porpokertools, you have 83% versus 23xx. You have 78% versus 235x. Note that since the 4 came on the turn and he continued betting, he shouldn't often have 42xx or 43xx for flopped 2nd or 3rd nut low which makes it more likely he does have 23xx, 56xx+, or perhaps 25xx with a good high hand.

    I think we can nearly eliminate A23x from this range since he was on the button, didn't raise, and you have blockers. You are a favorite against 23xx with a higher club draw thanks to your ace and are almost a coin flip against 2378 and 2347. So, the only hands that have you in bad shape are 2356, 2377, 2388, and 2344. Those hands constitute 189 combos if we consider the 8 dead cards. There are 7026 combos of 23xx, although he may not play all 23xx hands with this line. Regardless, the point remains that you only fear a tiny portion of his range OTT, and meanwhile, lead a large portion. Get it in.
  • imrulhuda Posts: 10Subscriber
    Thanks to both of you. I have played 4 sessions of PLO8 and 2 sessions of Big O. Out of the 06 sessions, only lost money (only 30 bucks) in 01 session. Really enjoying the game in this loose set up. Leaving for Vegas tonight. This will be my first Vegas tour. I will post some of the interesting hands from the tour.
  • imrulhuda Posts: 10Subscriber
    High__Rolla said:
    imrulhuda said:

    Hand 3:

    This is a very interesting hand.

    Stack 700. V is a good reg. Plays 1/2/5 PLO, 2/5 NLH, 5/10 NLH in local casino. But never saw him in 5/5 or 5/10 PLO - so my guess is he is transitioning into PLO. But he is definitly new to PLO8. He was asking about low hands in some showdown, mostly for confirmation.

    Preflop: V is in Button and made 10 button straddle. I call from MP2 with A 2 3 6. 4 more limpers. 6 way to the flop.
    Flop (60): A 7 8. So, I flop nut low with FD. I check call V's bet of 45.
    Turn (150): 4. I check call V's bet of 145.
    My initial intention was to check-raise here b/c this is a great turn for me. Turn gave me additional outs. 5 will give me a straight to 7. But his almost pot size bet was very dodgy to me.
    (Side note: I was watching a video of Bart where he says the power of 6 in this game. Its good that I realized that in my very first PLO8 session.)
    River (440): A. I lead for 200. V tanked for 20 second and made the call.

    result: I show 3 high flush for high and nut low. Villane looks at my 4 card for 20 second and looks at the board. Then shows K 10 and 2× 3× . I was quartred. (He thought I had a boat)
    I would raise this hand preflop, but I understand your reason being new for not doing so. I would also bet this flop. You have the nut low with backup against being counterfeited, and on the high side you have top pair with a FD and backdoor SD. That is a strong hand that is likely to stay strong across various runouts. You also get the chance to freeroll a high-only hand like middle set.

    As played, your remaining stack size sets up well for a check/pot on the turn. So, I like the check, but once he bets, I am always potting here. If he has a high-only hand (unlikely), you get to freeroll him. If he also had the nut low, there are only a few very specific 4-card combos that have you in bad shape. In Porpokertools, you have 83% versus 23xx. You have 78% versus 235x. Note that since the 4 came on the turn and he continued betting, he shouldn't often have 42xx or 43xx for flopped 2nd or 3rd nut low which makes it more likely he does have 23xx, 56xx+, or perhaps 25xx with a good high hand.

    I think we can nearly eliminate A23x from this range since he was on the button, didn't raise, and you have blockers. You are a favorite against 23xx with a higher club draw thanks to your ace and are almost a coin flip against 2378 and 2347. So, the only hands that have you in bad shape are 2356, 2377, 2388, and 2344. Those hands constitute 189 combos if we consider the 8 dead cards. There are 7026 combos of 23xx, although he may not play all 23xx hands with this line. Regardless, the point remains that you only fear a tiny portion of his range OTT, and meanwhile, lead a large portion. Get it in.
    How did you come up with the number of combos? Did you just do basic nCr, nPr math? or their is any short cut to consider the number of combos of particular 2/3 cards out of 4?
  • High__Rolla Posts: 720Subscriber
    imrulhuda said:

    How did you come up with the number of combos? Did you just do basic nCr, nPr math? or their is any short cut to consider the number of combos of particular 2/3 cards out of 4?
    You can do this on Propokertools.com using the count function. Be sure to enter the known cards as dead cards to get accurate numbers.
  • Beatsme Posts: 510Subscriber
    heck yeah i love these session reviews!
    try not give results. i think it makes it more interesting to think about not knowing the results of the hand.

    Hand 1:

    I started with 200. Stack 600. V is one of the worst players who is stuck 3000 already within half an hour.

    Preflop: V raised to 15. I called with A♣ 2♣ Q♥ 6♠
    Flop (30): 3♣ 4♥ 7♦. V leads 20. I call. (V knows me from local casino where I have a tight image)
    Turn (70): A♠. V bets 40. I call.
    River (150): Q♦. V bets 75. I snap call with top 2 with second nut low.

    Vs described villain i dont think you did anything wrong. Against normal competition i think we can fold the turn. i think this will be a wheel a decent amount from a regular plo8 player.

    Hand 2:

    My Stack 275.

    Preflop: V bets 10 from UTG. I make it 35 from UTG2 with A♥ 2♥ K♠ 10♣. MP2 calls. V calls.
    Flop (110): 6♥ 3♦ K♦. V leads 110. I shove for 240.

    Very nice hand.... as Bart said you dont have to raise pre flop. We can wait till we flop good then start piling money in. For me its kinda weird... some lineups a bet of 35 will actually thin the field.. in other lineups it will not. I think with a hand like this specifically A2 and 2 broadway cards i like raising as big as i can preflop IF it thins the field to heads up or 3 way. I think its just easier to have the best hand when the flop is K98. and it makes your hand very strong when the flop is K46 or T83. You would want to proceed with caution if there is a field of 4-6 players on these flops... but heads up or 3 way you can really pile money in.


    Hand 3:

    This is a very interesting hand.

    Stack 700. V is a good reg. Plays 1/2/5 PLO, 2/5 NLH, 5/10 NLH in local casino. But never saw him in 5/5 or 5/10 PLO - so my guess is he is transitioning into PLO. But he is definitly new to PLO8. He was asking about low hands in some showdown, mostly for confirmation.

    Preflop: V is in Button and made 10 button straddle. I call from MP2 with A♥ 2♣ 3♣ 6♠. 4 more limpers. 6 way to the flop.
    Flop (60): A♦ 7♣ 8♣. So, I flop nut low with FD. I check call V's bet of 45.
    Turn (150): 4♠. I check call V's bet of 145.
    River (440): A♣. I lead for 200. V tanked for 20 second and made the call.

    In my opinion this is the perfect hand to be the first limper in a straddled pot. IMO this hand plays very well multiway and we want to invite many players in to this pot. That being said if we are on the button and we get 3-4 limpers I like to raise it up a little... i would make it 15 on top to assure everyone will call

    as played we are in a great situation here.
    OTF: i like to come out and pot it.
    As played may very well check/pot this flop. I really think we have a great hand for this situation.
    OTT: again we have a great hand here... I would lead for pot. mainly because i dont want it to get checked thru. since we have the 2 and 3 of it reduces the chances of villain having nut low and a fd. When we check and villain pots it i would prob just call. Villain is showing a good deal of strenght here and check/potting may very well be an overplay here.... not too sure?
    OTF: tricky card here... we make our flush. Im betting. 200-300 seems good. I think we 3/4 the villain more than we get quarted. Villain will never fold if he happens to have A23 along with us... more i think about it i would prob pot the river.


    Love these PLO8 discussions. Im new to the game approaching 300 hours and really have no one to talk about it with. which is prob a good thing. No one really plays the game that well in my town!
Sign In or Register to comment.