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5/5 Capped games, linear 3betting in early position.

New table, average stack ~80bb. Games are usually filled with a good mix of passive stations and aggro punters, few good players. Lots of multi-way pots. Usual opens are $20-35.

UTG unknown rec looking 100bb eff opens $25, Hero UTG1 K Q

Thoughts on 3 betting?

We can likely get this HU and have position. This player is random, he might fold better or call worse. With a call, we'll likely start a chain and up with bad position. However, it's also a rec player opening from UTG... If 3b's called SPRs don't give us too much wiggle room post.

What range should be a 3b in this spot and what can overcall?

Comments

  • kansaisupra Posts: 25Subscriber
    I think is a great discussion because I am sure this happens to all of us in these capped games 100BB games.

    So here are my thoughts and here is where I think I could use help from the board.

    At least in LA, at these games, people say, "if you call then call" or Im getting pot odds I have to call, which means in this scenario, if you call $25 UTG, the likely hood of others calling or going multi way drastically increases. So as Christian Soto say, "post flop its jumpball" on whoever is going to win the hand. Personally I think this strategy sucks because we need to flop well and we basically give ourselves one way to win this hand, by flopping well.

    The other side is we 3!, to say, $100, it fold around to UTG who calls. Now we have a pot of $200 with an SPR of 2. We are pretty much committed to this pot with any draw or pair and we are not sure if any pair we hit is good.

    So I'd like to know the answers to OP original question as well.

    Personally, in my 5/5 game, I feel I have been calling way too much instead of 3! light but this exact situation described seems to discourage me from 3! and I end up just calling "hoping" to flop well.
  • hustlin Posts: 50Subscriber
    I'm all for 3bet and ISO a fish.

    However when rec raises UTG it's a pretty strong range. KQs doesn't play too well against a 3bet calling range.

    I think fllatting is superior play in this spot.

    3bet is great if opened say like MP
  • ohsnapzbrah Posts: 566Subscriber
    There are quite a few factors in this spot. What does the rest of the table look like? How has your image been? Has there been a lot of 3bets? What is the table dynamic? It's never going to be a vanilla answer.

  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,653Subscriber
    3! more often then not. have to assume MW if we call an UTG open so act accordingly basically.

    bart discussses briefly in last podcast with his 76hh hand i think.
  • sivaddivad Posts: 294Subscriber
    edited April 15
    cant say I love a 3 bet here. Most recs have a pretty tight UTG raising range that KQ suited is behind. I would actually prefer a hand like 76 suited, where we are less likely to get in a crappy spot (like flopping a queen when we are against AQ). Obviously we can adjust our assumptions if we find that villain is an aggro-fish clicking buttons, then I can get behind a 3 bet.

    Personally KQs is on the lower side of my UTG open range so I would probably either call at a weak table, or just let this one go at a tough squeeze happy table.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,118AdministratorLeadPro
    Supposedly UTG1 vs UTG you really should be playing mainly a 3 bet or fold strategy. The positional disadvantage of you in the middle when players call behind you makes this spot better to play as a 3 bet if you want to play the hand. This is something that I have just learned and last year and the previous 15 yrs before that I would have said "just call".

    Now down at 5-5 at 100bbs I'm sure that a case can be made for calling and letting other dominated hands come in, but you still benefit from getting it HU. Bart
  • kansaisupra Posts: 25Subscriber
    Bart said:


    Now down at 5-5 at 100bbs I'm sure that a case can be made for calling and letting other dominated hands come in, but you still benefit from getting it HU. Bart
    As a subscriber I appreciate the response. Quick question, when you just call and you let other dominated hands come in, are you just "trying to flop well?' Say it goes multi way, like 4 ways, are you just trying to flop well and check fold if you don't?

  • ActionTwin Posts: 144SubscriberProfessional
    UTG vs UTG1 for a 5x open at $5/5 I think this is a flat vs an unknown rec, especially with only 100bb's to start the hand. If he opened 3x I would be 3betting always since his range is likely weaker and there's a much higher likelihood of the hand going very multiway. Facing a 4x open I could go either way. When he opens 5x his range should be stronger since many rec players at this level have preflop sizing tells. With the larger sizing combined with him opening UTG and you calling UTG1 I think the hand is protected from squeezes with non-premiums and will tend to go more shorthanded to the flop. But your hand plays relatively well multiway anyways. It's also a disaster if he 4bets because you'll be forced to fold a hand with so much value. Versus a rec unknown at $5/5 I think you can just have a value 3bet/get it in range here for 100bb's of QQ+ and AK. Maybe throw in AQo as a 3b and fold to a 4b. I would be flatting like 77-JJ, ATs-AQs, KQs, KJs, QJs, JTs, T9s and folding everything worse.
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