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theroller Posts: 4Member
Been playing FLHE "professionally" for approximately a year, at 8/16 it is very much a pittance.
Did the math the other day and knew my hourly has been hovering at 19/h for quite some time, but the cost of my seat has been 27-30/h. After becoming more serious about improving I've come to realize I can't realistically play more hands (and subsequently improve) in the LAGTAG style advocated by many high level pros with such a high level of rake.
Considered moving up to ~20/40 but the games are pretty dismal, commute is exponentially further, and variance is certainly higher with a lower bb/h expectation coupled with higher limit. Also got crushed a couple times when shot taking and it certainly didn't help my confidence.

Opportunity presents itself to me to play at a room without rake but a 15$ flat fee daily. (my local takes 7$ capped/pot lol)
Games are established and run daily, 2+ games of 1-2 NL and mostly one table of 1-2 Big O.
The room operates in a way that allows players to "chip down" every 1h and rebuy for whichever amount they choose, which imo isn't a huge deal for Big O, but shortstacking NL seems pretty profitable but i'm unsure of the comparative hourly rates.

Anyway the NL play is suspect as well as the Big O play, and the Big O plays slightly bigger (100 avg BI vs 150) but I can't help but think the NL field is softer just due to newer players and confusion about split pot games etc, which edge do you think is larger? If the hourly is similar would Big O be the better choice due to variance considerations?

Also a couple hands I played.

300 behind, 8handed Big O
Opponents all approx ~150$ deep so 75bb, only one guy is deep w/me at 200bb, on my direct left, played ~2hands in 2hours.

Open A 2 A 4 J utg+1 to 7$, two cold calls, BTN (tilted NL player) pops to 35 with 125 behind, I repot and call his remaining X$
At showdown I get quartered, but he's got A(23)(56). Fine with this.

I overlimp MP with A 5 2 9 Q , one more limp and button makes it 10,
5 ways to the flop of 8 9 3, I donk 20 and get two calls
Turn comes 9 , I bet 50 and get two calls again.
River brings the 10 and ep checks, I (?)

I open to 7 UTG with A 2 3 K J and get cold called by hypernit, late position calls and blinds fold.
Flop of 5 7 T and I check, nit bets 5 lol, other guy calls I call.
Turn is an 8 and I check again, nit makes it 20, other guy calls I call, expecting my low to quarter with a decent frequency.
River is J and I check, nit pots it, other guy repots it for ~140. (?)


  • MonadPrimeMonadPrime Posts: 803Member
    edited July 2018
    I mean, average top end WR @ 1/2 NLH hover around 10BB/hr ($20/hr), which is already close to your present WR @ 8/16. Cant speak directly to Big O, but I doubt it's much higher (unless the player pool is truly bad). So in regards to that, I don't see alot of reason to change games (especially because learning is an expense in & of itself). However, if you have a little time to invest, NL is worth learning on the side, certainly, as it will always be more popular/widespread than FLH and/or Omaha. With your LHE background, you should pick up the nuances of the NL variant quicker than most. GL to you.
  • CycleV Posts: 742Subscriber
    edited July 2018
    The 10BB/hour ceiling (which isn't even a documented thing, jut number people have glommed on to) would seem to be predicated on avg stack size being around 100BB. If that isn' the case here, the short stacked NL game sounds horrible, even with no rake.
  • theroller Posts: 4Member
    edited July 2018
    I can't help but think I could exceed the standard 10bb/hr rate in a rakeless environment, no? I mean if I was playing FLHE in a rakeless environment, my rate would be 3 big bets/hr which is a complete fairy tale winrate.
  • workinghard Posts: 1,524Subscriber
    Yah. I don't like your play preflop. You can't try to shove an immovable object around and expect good things to happen. I think players, and I'm not saying I'm not guilty of doing this, of seeing a player who makes gross play mistakes and try to get them to go against their nature.
    So for future instances, here are some seemingly obvious guidelines:
    1. If a player is a calling station, don't try to bluff/bully him off a pot. He's not going anywhere.
    2. If a player makes crazy bluffs, don't make tight folds to him. And don't try to bluff a bluffer.
    3. If a player is a damn nit, don't make loose calls against him. He has the damn goods.

    No need to get super fancy in this spots. If you have the goods, get money. If you don't have the goods, move out of the way.
  • theroller Posts: 4Member
    edited July 2018
    I don't see anything wrong w/my preflop play, if you've got some reasoning I don't know about please tell me though. I'm pretty happy getting it in vs an inexperienced tilted player there, i'd prefer another broadway card instead of a 4 I guess but that's about it. Disregard results. Also with the sizing pre flop I'm calling off most runouts due to my hand hitting a lot of boards and him having a low SPR / tilted.
    Also are those bullet points per hand? because I don't see any crazy bluffing happening in hand two, my bets are pretty value based. Was just unsure what to do when i'm not closing the action with a hand like that. I was betting a lot of cards but I don't know if that is one of them.

    I can' t just fold everything against a nit, I've got the nut low still and was wondering how the math worked out there. I think if he wasn't deep with me and I didn't fear him shoving after the guys repot if I called, I could get the money in decently even for a 1/4 share.

    Pot is 100, nit pots it, so 200, guy shoves, so 340, if I call it's 480, nit calls 520 total, 1/4 is 130.
    -43$ result of hand on a call, -33$ on a fold?
    If I call and nit repots I hate my life and probably call?
    Calling off the nit for ~220$ assuming 1/4 costs me 45$ more than folding w/the pot size, idk If i can make that fold.
    Leads to a result of -173$ on a fold, and -208$ on calling shove
    Those are both worst case scenarios, in the better case nit has the high and I get 1/2 for a total of +89 on the hand
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