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Live 1/3 100 BB cap question

Hey guys I got in this spot today and wanted some advice on how to avoid/do better in the future.

I play in a very loose passive 1/3 game (Initial raise is $15 followed by 3-4 callers typically)

I was in the BB with J9 spades
UTG raises $15, followed by 4 callers so pot is $60 and I complete making it $75. I am $300 deep but UTG raiser has $250 or so.

Flop comes 982 two spades.

Here is where it gets awkward...because of the 4 callers plus my call the pot is so big that the UTG raiser who usually has a big pair or big Ace here bets half to 2/3 pot and the bet is $50 into $75

So pot is $125 and he has $175-$185 left

So I ripped it in and missed but my question has to do more with 100 BB cap games and implied odds etc...

Should we maybe think about not defending with suites connectors or speculative hands in a loose passive 1/3 game because of these issues even though we get insane odds pre flop?

Tl, dr: fold pre

Comments

  • FriendlyFish Posts: 83Member
    I think u played the hand fine. Definately don’t fold J9s pre completing the acfion
  • JLBJ Posts: 156Subscriber
    Hand is fine. Pot got big, you had a ton of equity and missed. You could also have had the best hand, as some guys will auto c-bet even into multiple players.

    Make sure to play 98 and the sets the same way.
  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited August 2018
    First off I think calling pre is ok, but definately not mandatory. You are out of position with a speculative hand and your chances of winning the pot are low considering your hand and the configuration.
    You also need to realize that while you flopped well, your hand is not a monster... all you have on the flop is a pair of 9's. After you shove and he calls, if you both turned your hands over at this point who do you think will have the best made hand?...

    After the PFR made it $50 did it fold around to you? If so, why do you need to jam? His range is very strong opening UTG. Right now you just have a pair of 9's with a Jack kicker. If you didn't also have the flush draw would you ever shove with a middling top pair, Jack kicker?
    Sure you have a lot of equity due to your draw, but assuming its heads up, and since you should be able to assess that you are behind if called, why rip it all in? Why not just call?
    If you rip it in you know hes not folding a better hand, and if he does somehow have a worse hand, he can easily fold.
    I think just calling is a much better play assuming its heads up. Realize your equity for as cheaply as possible, then if you improve, you can shove and he'll probanly still call with any hand he would call with on the flop.
  • JLBJ Posts: 156Subscriber
    I think stacks are a little too shallow to just call in this case. If we call, there’s only a pot-sized bet left. Would hate to check-fold on the turn if we miss when we for sure have a profitable jam on the flop.

    We’re a tiny favorite over red aces and a slight dog to black aces. We have 43% even if he somehow has JJ.

    I’m pretty much a “low variance” guy in these games, but I think the SPR here leaves jamming better than calling.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,302Subscriber
    Calling is better than raising in a loose passive game.

    #1 raiser is UTG and pretty much isn't folding
    #2 it's $12 to win $310 = 25:1 with an excellent SPR in which you can XRAI with a big draw.
    #3 you have relative position on the preflop raiser which means he plays his hand face up. And along with #2 you can really get your value.
    #4 after 4 callers and considering #1 you really don't have FE. And to make this play you need FE. Considering UTG probably has 27 combos of pairs and only 16 combos of

    If the raiser was MP and there was 1 person in the pot you have a better shot.

    But this is a pretty perfect line up for a call. So now you got your perfect flop almost and you don't know what to do? So think about that for a second. You raised without a plan. What were you going to do if you missed? Did you have a plan for 2 barrels if called?

    So say you call instead.... pot is $75..... Preflop raiser bets $60, 2 people probably call. Pot is not ~$240.... see how easy it is to XRAI at this point with this draw KO the other 2 and realize your equity. Instead now you are the aggressor and the other players have the leverage.

    So consider the PFR checks someone bets ~$40, and another calls. Pot is $155 and you are getting almost 4:1 with leverage.

    With a call you give yourself the most leverage with the hand and play it with the most accurate information. Raising gives you none of that with almost no FE vs an UTG.

    As played. Dude you hit your hand be ready to get it in if he shoves. Vs an overpair you have 14 outs which is ~50% equity the money is going in. if you are I could play by betting small, small, and XF the river.

    Why? Either he has the bigger spades when he calls or he has an overpair.

    So vs the larger spades - he is shoving or he is calling and giving up. Make the most vs this fold when behind because you know it's pretty much A K

    Vs the overpair - he is never folding. Save some river $$$ shove when you hit

    If 1/2 was deep I would play 1/2 over 2/5 it's that easy/
  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited August 2018
    @Fuzzypup. Thats a great detailed response, but I believe you conpletely misread the original post.
    I believe he called pre, checked the flop, original raiser bet, everyone else folds, and then he shoves.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,302Subscriber
    Oh oops. I saw I complete making it $75 as a raise lol.

    Well then with that pot size I'd XRAI. Someone is bound to bet. Or lead, get raised by OR, people call behind, reship to force the dead money to fold increasing my chances to win.
  • Brickowski Posts: 36Subscriber
    If you think he is the type of villan who will cbet too wide in multiway pots then The x/r seems like it would be a better play. Not sure if you think he is ever folding overpairs in this spot, probably depends on what he thinks about your image. Seems like this would be unlikely vs most villans, but maybe there is a chance. Might be better just to call though if you think hes not cbetting to much in this spot.
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