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$2/5 $500 Max Troubling River

Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
edited August 2018 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
$2/5 $500 cap at the Bellagio
Just sat down in the game so I have no reads. Everyone has me covered since I sit at about 5:30 am. I like to get to the game between 3-5ish on Saturday mornings since everyone is usually good and drunk. People are stuck or up a good deal so its generally a good time for action.

Game is 5 handed due to it being late and 2 people being away from the table.

Hero has 7 7 in the SB with about $540eff
Utg limps ~$1200
Next folds
Button raises to $25
I call
BB calls ~$2k? (A lot, didnt have an exact count)
Utg calls ~$900

Pot $100

Flop
7 6 2
I check
BB checks
Utg checks
Button bets $65
I check raise to $165
BB folds
UTG folds
Button calls $165

Pot $430

Turn
9

I lead $200
Button calls

Pot $830

River
J

I check with $150 behind
Button shoves...

My thoughts...
After the button calls my very strong looking check raise on the flop. I range him on a very premium hand, basically over pairs or possibly hes getting sticky with an AK, AQ type hand however I highly doubt it. I think I'm mostly up against over pairs. The only draws are 98 or 54. 85 is also open ended but I highly discount that posibility. I don't think any of these hands are really in most $2/5 players pre flop raising ranges, however he did raise on the button so they are slight possibilities. I think if anything 98ss is more likely than 45ss pre. Either way I don't really suspect either of these draws to call a check raise on the flop, since its very unlikely that he will get to see a free river since I check raised the flop, which means a turn lead is coming almost 100% of the time and he'a not getting a good price just for one card.
The 9 on the turn does bring in 85 but again, I have a hard time seeing someone open 85 over a limper. If he has 98 now he has top pair with his open eneded draw. Still though I feel like JJ+ is very likely here.
I really don't like the Broadway card coming in on the river. If I put him on an overpair, an overpair just made a better set. Am I loosing value by not shoving river? Backdoor Clubs also come in on on the river, but I have a hard time putting him on anything that connectscts with that since he raised pre, so he probably doesn't have 6 2 as the pfr. I suppose he could have made a very light float with like AK suited on the flop, but don't see that being realistic. We're never folding once we get to the river right?

Comments

  • hustlin Posts: 272Subscriber
    As played you have to Jam river. Ur going to X/C anyways. So may as well jam. You're going to get a lot of value from worse. and theirs no way you're folding a set of 7's here.

    U can consider just jamming turn or raising a little bit bigger here.
  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    In hindsight I do think jamming the river is a much better option. Since its since a small amount in relation to the pot I think even very weak hands make a crying call if they somehow arrived at this river.
    As far as betting more on the turn, I thought the sizing was awkward. You're right that if I do size up I basically have to shove. A few months ago I probably would have just blasted it all in, however I talked it over with some players and coachs I respect and I was told by a lot of good platers that betting bigger in these spots is going to get way more folds than calls. I tend to agree. I have a very strong hand, want a call, and itll be easy to get the rest in on the river. So thats why I elected to bet around 1/2 pot. If my opponent had the same starting stack as me I think he might call a shove on the turn, but I think him being deeper over the cap, hes proably winning in the session, and I think its easier for him to get away from almost all hands, espically overpairs. Although on the other hand, betting larger is more polarized, so it might be easier to get a call with a shove?
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,298Subscriber
    just jam you have so little left any big pair is calling and these guys can't fold big pairs on low boards.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,819AdministratorLeadPro
    edited August 2018
    Definitely definitely move all in on the river. Basically impossible for him to have backdoor clubs. Certainly looks like he has an overpair here. Why do you think this is a troubling river? If he rivered JJ so be it. Thats only 3 combos vs the 24 combos of TT-AA that are going to call here.
  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited August 2018
    @Bart Yeah I was just a little concerned about the Jack river just because JJ is certianly in his range and now beats us.
    After the comments and thinking back on it a jam is far better on the river since it now allows 1010 or even a screwy hand like 97 to check back where they otherwise might make a crying call. Also, as @hustlin pointed out, I'm always calling anyway so I should just get it in and hope to be called by so many combos of overpairs that are easily in his range.

    I did obviously call the jam and was shown A 4. Its "basically" impossible for him to have a flush here, but miracles happen I guess.

    Interestingly enough, last night I was in a somewhat similar spot with Aces in a 3 bet pot at Aria, and taking the information from this post I take the initiative and shoved on what looked like a clean runout to the river. Once again I was shown my 9.5-1 favorite on the flop got shoved up my ass by a backdoor flush...

    LoL Live Poker... Some say there isn't any money left in Poker, I disagree! Just gotta fade those zero equity draws...

    (Sorry for bitching about my bad beat, I know no one gives a damn, but man, twice in two nights for all the $$ is rough)
  • BartBart Posts: 5,819AdministratorLeadPro
    Sonny said:
    @Bart Yeah I was just a little concerned about the Jack river just because JJ is certianly in his range and now beats us.
    After the comments and thinking back on it a jam is far better on the river since it now allows 1010 or even a screwy hand like 97 to check back where they otherwise might make a crying call. Also, as @hustlin pointed out, I'm always calling anyway so I should just get it in and hope to be called by so many combos of overpairs that are easily in his range.

    I did obviously call the jam and was shown A 4. Its "basically" impossible for him to have a flush here, but miracles happen I guess.

    Interestingly enough, last night I was in a somewhat similar spot with Aces in a 3 bet pot at Aria, and taking the information from this post I take the initiative and shoved on what looked like a clean runout to the river. Once again I was shown my 9.5-1 favorite on the flop got shoved up my ass by a backdoor flush...

    LoL Live Poker... Some say there isn't any money left in Poker, I disagree! Just gotta fade those zero equity draws...

    (Sorry for bitching about my bad beat, I know no one gives a damn, but man, twice in two nights for all the $$ is rough)
    What was the runout in that hand 2, anyway? Chalk hand one up just to bad luck. River is totally a shove. Bart
  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited August 2018
    @Bart
    The second hand was even weirder...

    Folds around
    MP opens to $15 ~$1200
    Folds to me in BB with A A
    I raise it to $55 starting with $500
    MP Calls

    Flop
    T 4 3
    I lead $60 into $105
    Call

    Turn
    2
    I lead $140 into $265
    Call

    River
    7
    I jam $245 into $445
    He calls immediately with 8 9

    When he called after I 3 bet from out of position in the BB and then called on the flop, I was fairly certian he had at least something. Since it was a 3 bet pot I figured hes mostly playing big pairs and big suited/connected Broadway's. Obviously 1010 can be in his range but if he has that I'm just going to loose, unless he does something that might slow me down. This guy wasn't a wizard either. I don't think he was calculating how to optimally play his backdoor equity against my Ace high bluffs or something. Just button clicking...
    You can imagine my suprise when I found out he called my flop bet in a 3 bet pot with 9 high, no draw.
    Again, its just bad, bad luck.

    I actually think the $2/5 players in Vegas are worse than a lot of the $1/3 field. I still play $1/3 probably half the time due to lack of good $2/5 games to choose from, but out of the last couple hundred hours of $2/5 I've played, the $2/5 players do far dumber shit for way more money.

  • BartBart Posts: 5,819AdministratorLeadPro
    Sonny said:
    @Bart
    The second hand was even weirder...

    Folds around
    MP opens to $15 ~$1200
    Folds to me in BB with A A
    I raise it to $55 starting with $500
    MP Calls

    Flop
    T 4 3
    I lead $60 into $105
    Call

    Turn
    2
    I lead $140 into $265
    Call

    River
    7
    I jam $245 into $445
    He calls immediately with 8 9

    When he called after I 3 bet from out of position in the BB and then called on the flop, I was fairly certian he had at least something. Since it was a 3 bet pot I figured hes mostly playing big pairs and big suited/connected Broadway's. Obviously 1010 can be in his range but if he has that I'm just going to loose, unless he does something that might slow me down. This guy wasn't a wizard either. I don't think he was calculating how to optimally play his backdoor equity against my Ace high bluffs or something. Just button clicking...
    You can imagine my suprise when I found out he called my flop bet in a 3 bet pot with 9 high, no draw.
    Again, its just bad, bad luck.

    I actually think the $2/5 players in Vegas are worse than a lot of the $1/3 field. I still play $1/3 probably half the time due to lack of good $2/5 games to choose from, but out of the last couple hundred hours of $2/5 I've played, the $2/5 players do far dumber shit for way more money.

    Yeah, this hand is actually worse with you having the A. The only viable flush he should have here is 5 6 given configuration.

    Bart
  • ohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    The first hand, Preflop is whatever. Not a huge fan of the flat in SB with players behind, but it's not bad.

    I'm not sure we should check raise this hand on this flop. If it was two tone, then I like a check raise much better. There are a few overpairs that can call, but aside from that we're going to have so much of the board locked up. Plus stack sizes are such that we don't need to check raise flop to get them in.

    As played, just shove turn. We have less than a 75% psb behind and there are now a lot of action killing river cards.

    On the river, just shove. An overpair made a set. Just one. There is still QQ KK AA all in his range. But he very well checks them back when you check, so there seems to be value lost when we just check.

    As played, we have to call. We have to use the logic of him not betting an overpair and realize that he's going to have a polarized range of nothing, like 54, and nuts, like the occasional T8 and flush. Price is just way too good though to ever fold.
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