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2/5/10; facing small bets, with aggressive big stack still to act

I got lost in the following hand on each street. V1 is an older player; only two notable hands I've seen was that he limped overbet with AA, and he donk bet into me on an QQ8 board and then folded to my raise. V2 is an aggressive player, seems to be pretty good, has been a on massive heater (up like $5K), and playing a lot of hands aggressively as a result (even more than usual for this already aggressive player). V1 has ~$800, I have ~$1100, V2 has us cover and then some.

V1 calls in UTG+1, I raise K♦J♦ in cutoff to $35. V2 calls in straddle; V1 calls.

FLOP: J♣10♣5♦. V2 checks. V1 donk bets $35. If I was heads up, I would have raised here, esp. given prior history, but with aggressive V2 behind me, donk bet looks stronger and V1 is possible to repop... so I call. Should I have raised? V2 calls.

TURN: 9♠. V2 checks. V1 bets $35 again. Board is even scarier, but I don't think I should fold with my top pair and gut-shot at this price... raising seems bad, so I call. V2 calls.

RIVER: K♠. V2 checks. V1 bets $95, and as I think about it, I notice V2 ready to pitch the hand.

Please help on all streets.

Comments

  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,373Subscriber
    Flop call is fine. It's a small bet but there are lots of draws. So their equity is really high vs you and you don't want to bloat the pot with just TPGK.

    Turn I would have raised the turn. It is a delayed donk bet raise. So look at how the hand plays OTT.
    V1 donk bets 1/3rd pot. V2 just calls OOP. He clearly doesnt have a strong hand. V1 also donk bet small again. Neither have strong hands. So get the value now and charge that draw. One of them has the draw the other maybe TP and the only TP you are worried about is AJ. No one has KQ and your hand looks like KQ from how you played it from start to finish

    #1 you raised preflop LP which can easily be KQ.
    #2 you just called a FD board with an OE and 2 overs. Makes sense.
    #3 you raise the turn. Looks like KQ to me. AJ probably folds

    Many will say this is overplaying a single pair hand. But look what happens. 1st off you will get a read from their reactions. 2nd their draws will call so now you charged them the maximum with their odds cut in 1/2 Even big draws are pretty far behind. Any big draw will call anyways. How can they resist a 12 out draw. If you get 3b fine fold. If you get called and they lead the river they will assume you have a strong hand and probably lead large. So there is no pretty much zero bluffing range OTR from them. If they call a turn raise they are pretty much on a draw or TP. Only hand that might call that has you beat is AJ.

    Ok so river play. As played at this point I do think you are very much ahead of his range but what is he calling a raise with that he limp called UTG? And what hands have you beat he played weird is what I would ask.

    K X isn't calling a raise.
    KJ = tie
    A Q and this is his value bet so you are dead.
    K 9 but even this hand I think he XCs the turn 50% of the time.

    Some weakly played 8 7 ???

    I just really can't see what he bets the river that you beat that calls a raise. I'd just call because I think raising gets nothing he has to call. Maybe a min-raise if you think he calls that.


  • BartBart Posts: 5,887AdministratorLeadPro
    I actually like a raise on the flop here, even multiway. V2 in the straddle isnt going to be screwing around vs a bet AND a raise if he check raise 3 bets the flop you are mot likely up against a set, top two or a 15 draw. I actually think you fold to that action.

    Once you call the flop I think your hands are tied on the turn to a call. Min bets are sort of like checks in my book and if they action was checked to you on the turn I would seriously consider checking back with a third player in there. If you wee going to bet the turn, you might consider raising the min bet to the amount you wanted to bet yourself.

    River is strange indeed. If you have a strong read that the player behind you is going to fold I certainly can see a call based upon price, but it does look like this guy has a queen. bart
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,004Subscriber
    I agree with everything Bart said above. I think you definitely need to raise this flop.

    More than anything, I wanted to post that I love your screenname @barry20calvin81. GO LIONS!
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,373Subscriber
    So pots $105 on the flop + $35... why are we raising to and what's our plan OTT when 1 of 23 cards comes on the turn and shuts us down which is ~50% of the deck? Why are we bloating the pot here with KJ?

    We raise only a worse Jx hand folds and all others with good equity call or stronger hands.
    If we just call we will hear from strong hands NOW costing us less.
    Our hand turns face up almost.

    So we raise... $150 and get called in 1 spot.... now its $405 and we have $900 left. That isn't a fantastic SPR here. Now generally OTT we are going to bet a size that crosses their pain threshold and polarizes their calling range.

    Now if I had QQ+ that's a different story. I would raise this flop.
    Now there are more Jx hands in his range. AJ and KJ I beat and probably arent folding and there are more combos of them. I see this as a matter of combinatorics I want and expect to call vs those that won't which is a different dynamic with KJ.
    With QQ+ there are 18-24 combos we now crush compared to ZERO when we hold KJ. Means ~7% more of his XC range we beat. QJ and J9 are probably folding to a raise anyways.
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