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Weird bluffs from rec players

So I've recently ran across some hands that were really strange. They play me back at me and I was the pre-flop razor and they were out of position. in the latest hand the villain limp called under the gun I raised on the button with ace 8 off suit and he limp called under the gun. Flop came Ace 10-3 rainbow he donked into me 30 into a $40 pot I called the turn was an inconsequential five again he bet nearpot again and this time I folded the reason being sometimes people just bet their hands and he seems like a recreational player l. he showed me after I folded it king queen off suit.

Reminds me of another goofy hand 2 weeks ago. Utg old player who i thought was bad raised to 20. I 3b in the bb to 75 w AQo, he called. Flop Q73r I bet 100, he raises to 275. Again doesnt make sense on a dry board but bad players can play weird. I call. Turn is 2. I check. He goes all in for 650. I fold. He shows me 34o.

It doesnt make sense in the first hand to bet into me on the turn in the first hand. Doesnt make sense hed pau a set this way or spme random pr in the 2nd. They both seemed like bad rec players before these hands and i usually give those players credit for gaving,a hand even if thry play it strange.

Should i just call old rec farts whose lines donr make sense period? Would you have folded these hands? Played em different? Maybe raise the flop on the first hand?

Comments

  • BartBart Posts: 5,917AdministratorLeadPro
    I would start calling these idiots down more often. What did you think the guy had on the Q73r board? I mean is he calling the 3bet with any two pair combos and does he really fast play a set that way? I would have a very hard time folding AQ there. Bart
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    The fact they showed you their bluffs feeds into their type of person. You need to start calling these clowns down and even baiting them to perform these acts of stupidity.

    There is a problem with short term players like this at a game. If your game has a lot of these types and they rotate out quickly like within 1-2 hours at the table they reset. Each of these players is like a combination lock. Takes you a little time to figure out their style but when you do it's like printing money. But if they leave the table quickly and more rotate in and out then you keep losing this information and it makes it harder to play them. Short stacked 1/2 games are notorious for this kind of bullshit, unbeatable, and frustrating especially when there is a fixed drop.

    The reason it takes time is because sometimes some fish just gets a bug in his pants and pulls a move just this one time then never does it again once they show. Or they, what I call, out dumb you. Like in the Q73r example maybe he thought you had AK there and was completely clueless to ranges. It takes time to sniff out this level of backward thinking.

    So a baiting example..... We had this guy which was pretty obvious a crazy ass mother fucking middle aged white guy who had been drinking too much. I moved to the table and within 45m it was clear he was here to gambol.

    I had raised a couple hands and XFed some missed flops and was playing tight. So my image was weak tight.
    I raised AQo in the CO a little extra large vs 2 limpers. Only the BUT called.

    FLOP Q 6 3 - I bet 1/3rd pot, he snap calls.
    TURN 8 - I X, he pots it. I think for a bit and call.
    RIVER 2 - I X and look at him, he shoves for a massive amount I call.
    He has complete air, gets up and leaves.

    He was attuned enough to realize what a small bet on a drawy board was but vs his 75% range. 100% call, 100% bet if Xed to I am never folding my TPTK to this guy. You read this hand in a vacuum and I look like an idiot how I played it.

    Pay attention if they have a lot of money. Kind of clothes they wear, jewelry, talk to them, find out what they do become friendly. It's both for information and entertaining their egos so they keep spewing into the middle.

    Do you have an angry player, a rich I don't give a fuck player, a rich Trump sized ego player who has no regard for money. Figure out that combination.
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
    Bart said:
    I would start calling these idiots down more often. What did you think the guy had on the Q73r board? I mean is he calling the 3bet with any two pair combos and does he really fast play a set that way? I would have a very hard time folding AQ there. Bart
    Bart...
    I actually said that out loud to him when he shoved. Problem is a rec bad player, they might play a set this way. Maybe not . but ive seen all the time at the lower levels rec players do silly things, like play a set or donk into me w a gutter. Ive ran across this too much but always someone different. Am,i,playing it right or should i maybe raise the flop? These idiots im running across are pretty tilting. Not sure what theyre thinking. Have you run across players like this?
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
    Actually fuzzy they were both 60s bad rec players. My experience has been typically if its a bad player you have to give them credit because bad players dont bluff as much. Not the case w these guys which is what throws me off. Theyll both play bad, limp calling, donk betting never folding, etc and then do thos wacky shit. Maybe it is just to get more action and theyll never do it again to get action? Thats a theory. The last guy who was 60s asian (first hand was white guy) told me well i can get you to fold a weak ace. But im thinking i was the pf raiser, i have ak or a set of aces which im never folding. (I had A7 otb 6 handed. ) Seen a lot of this lately which i,honestly never have in the past 10 years.
    Fuzzypup said:
    The fact they showed you their bluffs feeds into their type of person. You need to start calling these clowns down and even baiting them to perform these acts of stupidity.

    There is a problem with short term players like this at a game. If your game has a lot of these types and they rotate out quickly like within 1-2 hours at the table they reset. Each of these players is like a combination lock. Takes you a little time to figure out their style but when you do it's like printing money. But if they leave the table quickly and more rotate in and out then you keep losing this information and it makes it harder to play them. Short stacked 1/2 games are notorious for this kind of bullshit, unbeatable, and frustrating especially when there is a fixed drop.

    The reason it takes time is because sometimes some fish just gets a bug in his pants and pulls a move just this one time then never does it again once they show. Or they, what I call, out dumb you. Like in the Q73r example maybe he thought you had AK there and was completely clueless to ranges. It takes time to sniff out this level of backward thinking.

    So a baiting example..... We had this guy which was pretty obvious a crazy ass mother fucking middle aged white guy who had been drinking too much. I moved to the table and within 45m it was clear he was here to gambol.

    I had raised a couple hands and XFed some missed flops and was playing tight. So my image was weak tight.
    I raised AQo in the CO a little extra large vs 2 limpers. Only the BUT called.

    FLOP Q 6 3 - I bet 1/3rd pot, he snap calls.
    TURN 8 - I X, he pots it. I think for a bit and call.
    RIVER 2 - I X and look at him, he shoves for a massive amount I call.
    He has complete air, gets up and leaves.

    He was attuned enough to realize what a small bet on a drawy board was but vs his 75% range. 100% call, 100% bet if Xed to I am never folding my TPTK to this guy. You read this hand in a vacuum and I look like an idiot how I played it.

    Pay attention if they have a lot of money. Kind of clothes they wear, jewelry, talk to them, find out what they do become friendly. It's both for information and entertaining their egos so they keep spewing into the middle.

    Do you have an angry player, a rich I don't give a fuck player, a rich Trump sized ego player who has no regard for money. Figure out that combination.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    Yes most bad players don't bluff often enough to have you call them with any reasonable frequency. I forgot to specify in the baiting example above. The guy was playing crazy and bluffy. His frequencies off the chart for the short time I was there and his behavior wasn't of a thoughtful player. He was acting on instinct waiting for a larger game. So he had no respect for money. Little clues.

    But it doesn't mean they bluff at the wrong times.
    EXAMPLE

    Folds to me, I raise 3 2 OTB (yes I know shit hand but I felt frisky), BB Indian player calls
    FLOP 2 4 J - X, I bet, BB snap calls doesnt look at his cards
    TURN K - X, I bet, BB snap calls
    RIVER 4 - fish donks into me 1/2p, I call he has A 5

    So here there are lots of clues that he is bluffing even though he isn't a bluffer.
    Indian - most are a little crazy at poker
    Snap calls - He didnt consider his hand. Draw or Jack... anyone with a 4 would at least think before calling the turn
    River bet removes a J from his hand except J4 and very likely a King. He also doesnt have K4ss. So he has a few 2 pair hands he might bet but there are ~10 other FDs, +~35 SDs. When you compare the 2 and the fact he bet on a bottom pair.. paired card which he shouldnt have it leans on a bluff.

    But even I have been fooled by someone outdumbing me.

    Once I 3b this guy after not playing a hand for an hour, he calls 1/9th his stack, calls the flop vs my range AKx, then I X the turn with my pair of 88s and he shoves. He shows complete and utter air. No pair, no draw, nothing Q4s was his hand I believe.... didnt even have a BDFD. Not much I could do.

    Just be aware and look for patterns. But yea mostly they don't bluff often enough to justify a call.
  • f0xr Posts: 63SubscriberProfessional
    This is what makes it tough to play against unknown players. You're forced to to start with typical population tendencies as a baseline until you see enough showdowns to get a read. Sometimes, like your hands, you just get owned and there really isn't much you can do.

    The main thing is to adjust as quickly as you can. If you play with someone long enough to know that they just overbluff like this and make plays that don't make any sense, you just have to call down with your strong hands sometimes.

    I remember playing with a guy at 2/5 a while ago, and it was soon obvious that he was a maniac. He showed down some garbage hands in raised and 3b pots, and bluffed off a stack in a spot that didn't make any sense. After that he was obviously on tilt and started making huge opens almost every hand. After a few hands, he opens in ep to $45, the btn calls, and I 3bet the sb with AQs. He doesn't think long and jams for $800. The btn folds and I snap call. Now obviously AQs isn't normally in my 4bet call off range 150 bbs deep, but against this guy, it wasn't even close. He could have had kk. Or 55. Or t8o, like he did. Once you know what's going on, sometimes you just have to ride the variance.
  • CycleV Posts: 1,024Subscriber
    I think most all of us have a story (or many) about a spot where we were shown some total airball bluff. At this point I just shrug and move on. these dudes rarely leave with money, even once they've run it up to 500BB.
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