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Bottom 2 vs lag opponents

1/2 $800 effective
Very loose/splashy game.
$6 straddle on.
3 players call the straddle, hero is on button with 7 8 and also calls (should we squeeze at some frequency?)
BB also calls and now straddle makes it 30. He’s a very LAG maniac who tends to make quite a few expensive mistakes. Another loose player in MP calls, and I decide to call in position in a decent implied odds spot. BB also calls behind me.
Flop ($131): A 7 8
BB checks, straddle bets $70, MP calls...
Utg has like 1200 MP has about 900 hero is effective stack 800


  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    Calling OTB is fine after 3 people call with 2 laggy players in the pot. Even no laggy players calling is fine. Unless you can get them all to fold or get it heads up.

    As played. Call preflop? It's about right for that hand. But will any played stack off that deep you have to ask.

    Flop the pot is $270 and you have $770 left. MP probably has an ace or a draw.
    man that's a tough raise spot. Too much to shove.

    Any reasonable raise amount gives them odds with a FD that guarantees you get stacked. But the pot is awkward enough that a shove is too much. I think I would raise ~$300 here planning on shoving a safe turn card. Pot will be $870 with my $470 left to shove which probably will make draws call incorrectly if they called the flop bet.

    I am a bit perplexed in this spot. I think my raise is correct. If LAG shoves back over the top? I lean on calling. His bet is too small for a strong hand.
  • Stoked Posts: 96Subscriber
    edited September 2018
    Thanks @Fuzzypup.
    I thought overall this hand had a few tricky decision points and it was magnified by the deep stacks and pot size you don’t always see at this level. Pre-flop in particular I thought was probably ok but then again I hate limp calling so I didn’t know if maybe this was one of the few instances where it was the best option. At this table raising the button was basically never going to win the pot outright or even thin the field. The straddle player would call almost any amount with pretty much any hand, and once he’s in others will call almost always. On the other hand he will almost always raise his straddle when limped to so I guess the end result is the same as far as pot size going to the flop. So I wonder if raising here might be slightly better as I can go to the flop with a stronger uncapped range and the initiative?

    I’ll post my action and what happened next, but I want to give others a chance to chime in if they want first.
  • hustlin Posts: 299Subscriber
    edited September 2018
    Fine w calling and raising w this hand on the BTN.
    The benefit to raising is you pick up some of the dead money and get to play the hand against less players.
    Calling is ok too . Cause 78s great hand to see a flop with deep stacks.
    I would slightly lean towards raising . Prefer to build pots in position.

    As played... oooo it’s a tough spot here. Just cause we’re sooo deep.
    I want to raise heee. But seeing a free card and seeing what comes on the turn is tempting.
    I would prob raise to like $250-$270.
    charge MP for the flush draw. And hopefully UTG has a strong Ace.
    If he checks jam I’m mean..... crap. AA, A8, A7 ,88, 77, Axdd ,56dd, 910dd.

    u know what. Against these LAG’s, if they over play AK, AQ for at least a street or two. Than I would raise. If they the kind of villains that may fold a strong A than I prefer a call on the flop.
    by 1Stoked
  • Stoked Posts: 96Subscriber
    So I ended up raising to $225 (too small?)
    UTG folded rather quickly, MP shoved after brief consideration.
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