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2 Hands 1 hole. Wait, 2 separate hands, same hole... nm

PrimoVictor Posts: 59Subscriber
edited September 2018 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Casino: Seven Mile Casino - $2/3 NLHE $300 max buy-in - Effective stacks around $480

Hand 1 - Hero from CO ($520) Q 7 - Almost 3 a.m. Mistakes were made.

Straddled from UTG for $6 with 3 limpers. Hero over limps. SB/BB call and Straddler checks.

($31) Flop: 4 T 5 - Checks to UTG($480) who bets $15, folds to Hero who calls with backdoor flush/straight draws, and BB($121) is only other caller.

($76) Turn: 4 T 5 6 - Checks to UTG who bets $25, Hero only calls, BB shoves for remaining $106, UTG calls, Hero?? In my opinion the UTG player clearly does not have a made hand with him just calling. Do we shove to try and fold out the UTG? If called we should have enough equity to be OK. Pot is $394 if Hero just calls extra from the BB. Shoving would put UTG all-in for his remaining $359.

What is the best option here on the turn?

Hand 2 - DIFFERENT NIGHT - Similar hand but this time we are versus two maniacs that I've been playing with for hours. MP2 fires at everything while BB calls every flop bet hoping for a check on turn to bet/take down. They play way too many hands. BB has rebought 3 separate times for the max. Currently ran this buy-in up a bit. Effective stacks $320.

Hero from HJ ($320) 9 8 raises to $15, SB, BB, and MP2 call.

($55) Flop: Q T 7 - Checks to MP2($360) who leads out for $35, Hero calls, and BB($550) calls.

($160) Turn: Q T 7 8 - MP2($325) bets $80, Hero with ($270)??? How often can we turn our hand here into a bluff raise/shove? I am fairly confident based on how MP2 plays he still has 1 pair here a lot. AQ/KQ/QJ make sense. The BB could have anything from flush draw, to bottom two, or absolutely nothing. We do not have any hearts so that leaves open the very real possibility of a flush draw being in one of their hands.

Hand 1
Spoiler:
Hero just calls. River was an off suit Queen and I talked myself into a check instead of betting in side pot for value. BB had T6os and UTG has 7 4


Hand 2
Spoiler:
Hero shoves for his $270, $190 raise, BB folds, and MP2 tanks for 3 minutes before folding. He had $245 left when I shoved for an extra $190.
Tagged:

Comments

  • Stoked Posts: 96Subscriber
    edited September 2018
    Hand 1:
    Fold pre. Fold flop not closing action. On turn we have Q high and a 15 out draw, but we are only really happy if an 8 comes. If we call and the spade comes and we get shoved on, are we calling? I feel like there’s a decent chance we are up against a made hand and a dominating draw. I think I’m letting this one go.

    Hand 2:
    Against these guys I usually try to let them hang themselves when I have a strong value hand. I wouldn’t recommend trying to get a loose bad player to fold top pair, let alone 2 bad players. We have 3rd pair, if we make 2 pair it puts a 1 liner to a J out there, our straight draw could already be beat or improve our opponents if we make it. A bluff might work, but this doesn't seem to be the ideal situation to me. I would probably fold turn and look for a better spot to get chips in against these guys.

    Haven’t read the spoilers yet
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,827Subscriber
    Hand 1. Fold pre or fold flop. Ok we don't do that fuck that. I'm not getting fancy at a $3 blind game at 3sm. Just call behind with equity. These guys aren't going to blow you of a draw or fold a hand when a draw gets there I bet

    Hand 2.

    If I'm there preflop raiser I'm betting flop. Especially with a hand like 89 here.
  • CycleV Posts: 912Subscriber
    The whole idea of backdoor draws, imo it's an example of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Each backdoor adds about one out to our equity. They are useful when we are pfr and are trying to figure which hands we can barrel and then when should we 2-barrel with a hand like KQs when we missed the flop. (Same applies if we decide to c/r a flop.) Thinking about backdoors in those spots is good. But in your first hand, basically we have nothing but the backdoors, which means we have like 2 outs. When we look at it that way, this is a trivial fold.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,298Subscriber
    Hand #1 fold preflop.... as played call the turn. BB has a random hand and it is WAY more likely he has 2 pair than a straight if you just look at the combos. He has ANY Tx hand on the flop. He has 54 2 pair combos and 44 SD combos (you have 4 of his outs). He also can have any combo of double draws. Very likely UTG isn't folding. You have the 50% mark of flushes with a SD on the side pot. You are getting 3:1 right now + what you can make on the river. Seems like UTG has a draw. Even if one has a set you still have odds. It's the whole range that BB has that makes this worth calling. If you had a low spade flush I would consider folding like 7 2 But it's way more likely UTG has diamonds and he 95100% doesnt have the straight.

    Hand #2 Don't raise preflop. You don't need to. If you have two maniacs that are willing to pay you off why are you raising? Seems like a sticky table. With high SPRs you have the advantage. The lower the SPR the better they play as their decisions get easier. We raise a hand like 98s to isolate with position. You aren't isolating anyone. As played to continue with this hand for value or as a bluff in this spot you need to know your opponent. Seems kind of duh no kidding by my statement but it has to do with frequency. If your play allows him to play perfect you are taking all the risk and in the long run it's probably -EV.

    If here I have not figured out his patterns I think I would use his behavior as my 10% leverage point on what I would do. Replay the hand in my head and go over his behavior to gauge his range a little better. 3rd pair with a 4 card straight and possibly drawing dead is about the 50/50 mark in this spot. The maniac is betting SOMETHING. I highly doubt it's complete air. I might make a plan to call all rivers and allow him to keep bluffing. Or call certain cards. Or bluff him if he checks. Bluff shoving is an option but I'd have to have a read on him. Usually we bluff raise a maniac when we have ZERO equity. So bluff shove allows him to pretty much play perfect. Which is bad for us because it doesnt allow him to bluff MORE. But it does deny his equity. Tough spot in a vacuum for sure.
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