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Am I the only one tilted as fuck when a competent LAG sits down

Amicus Posts: 190Subscriber
edited October 2018 in Beats, Brags, and Variance
Brag: I am not a shitty player. My 2/5 win rate is consistently significantly above the 10BB/hr "great" player standard


Beat: I think my win rate becomes -$500/hr when a LAG who plays way too many hands sits down because it fucks with my game flow and my potential to play hands against the fish

By LAG, I mean someone ridiculously off the charts loose to the point in which it's even hard to construct a 3bet or fold range because the guy raises over 50% of hands. But he's also suspicious and floaty and it's unknown how much you have to bluff off if you don't have a monster. If it's someone slightly looser but still plays fairly reasonable hands, say a 30% then he still substantially changes the game negatively but doesn't set off tilt.

Comments

  • ohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    If he raises 50% of hands, he isn't a competent LAG. He's a spewtard. If he is also sticky postflop along with raising 50% of hands, he is calling way too much and is probably a maniac. Just because a player plays in a way that frustrates you doesn't mean they're competent.
    by 1CycleV
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    Well here is the problem with them. They change the table dynamics and don't allow you to play your game. They put you out of your comfort level and force other players to change their game. Now all the information is off. We usually don't encounter these kind of players and they are very different from one another. So we don't have much practice.

    Vs a standard maniac which has a very high CB% the play is easy and solely based on math.
    XC x3 with good hands...
    XC x2, XRAI with great hands...
    XF weak hands
    XR once with the worst hand on the flop that has zero equity, if called XF.
    XC with draws.

    But these types have a mix. They key is to figure out where their aggression stops.
    Some just raise preflop and turn into fish on the flop.
    Some raise preflop and are aggressive on the flop and give up.
    Some preflop, flop, and turn, and give up.
    After that they are maniac.
    Most run on emotion and and the high of gamboling. They have tells.

    You just have to pay attention.

    But now here is the other problem. Their longevity isn't long. So sometimes what happens is either they KO players, force them to leave, or get KOed themselves. So now all that time is wasted, the table rotates players and you are starting from hours one.

    2nd solution is to change tables.

    We aren't there to be the best of the best of the best. We are there to make money. I will gladly put my ego in a cart and move to a table where my long term profit is higher than an unpredictable high variance table. I help out 3 friends who don't play as well as I do. They play mixed 1/2 and 2/5. One piece I noticed about their games is the rotation of players resets information and lowers winrates as does post flop LAG enough players. It makes decisions harder.

    I would prefer a table of tighter players I play 10 hours than a rotating crazy table. I can figure out everything in 2-3 hours about the tight players and exploit their weaknesses with low variance. The rotating crazy players I am forced to play a tighter game and usually by the time I get a read or several the players have rotated out or busted out and I have to start all over.

    There is also the last intangible. Anxiety. Stress affects your mind and how you play. I have heard the same story many times from good players. Something in life happens that gives them anxiety they lose. It's happened to me. So if this kind of player gives you anxiety change tables. That stress is affecting your game and winrate.

    Hope this helps.

  • Amicus Posts: 190Subscriber
    edited October 2018
    The question was more rather this type of tilt is unique to me than how to play these games. I know my mental game can't handle it, so the only solution is just to leave. Or does anyone actually like these games because this guy creates action?

    By competent, I mean that they play much bigger and the move down to splash around. But they still know how to play poker, so they're not spewing blindly. Their win rate is definitely tech ically lower than if they played normally, but it fucks with my head a lot more this way. Even if it's not profitable for him to raise 53o and get 6 callers, that doesn't make it any less irritating

    My style is to do whatever the fish are doing but to a lesser extreme and better than they are doing. So if everyone is limping, them I play a lot of limped pots too. If there aren't as many limps, then I'll raise/fold more often than limp. And I go by the tight but not as tight as the rest of the table at a tight table and loose but not as loose as the rest of the table at a loose table etc. When this guy sits down, he disturbs the game and it's tilting. For example, if the fish are limping and I limp, he'll raise and it's not really profitable to call with a lot of hands. If the fish limp and I raise, he'll 3bet or give me action when he has position but give me a hard time if I don't smash the flop.

    I think I would have a better chance against him in a HU match (because the ranges are comparable for both sides) than having him at the table and disturbing the game. Because when I'm playing normally, he's making it so that I can't play my normal ranges against the fish. And it's easier for him to range me than for me to range him when his range is anything with a resemblance of playability and equity.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    edited October 2018
    All your points are valid thus why I said what I said. There are many intangibles to winrate. This is one of them.

    You have an unorthodox opponent that you aren't used to. It takes time to figure out his game. Sometimes it's easier to just move tables.

    Yes they irritate me too
  • ohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    You shouldn't play like the fish though. If you model your play after something, eventually you will become that something...in this case, a fish. In fact, you should typically play opposite to the style of the table. If the table is limp happy, yeah you can overlimp some more speculative hands in position, but otherwise you should be raising a tight range. If the table is tight and nitty, raise a lot and raise a wide range.

    If it really bothers you and you have no ambition to improve your play, switching tables may be the way to go. If you want to improve your play, or are a professional who relies on poker as your sole source of income, then you should ideally stay and figure out both how to beat these type of players and not tilt.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    The problem with this kind of LAG player who is sort of accidentally balanced is that it is hard to range him and his frequency because these types are all very different. Vs a manic there is no ranging. You just math it. It's easy. You have a decent hand that holds up to a 90% bet bet bet frequency you XC, XC, XC.

    But many of these types have an unusual frequency that can range from less than what it should be for their range to way above. We can't account for all of the variables because it is too many. If this guy is a regular then I agree our hero needs to take a few sessions play like a nit and just pay attention to this guy. These types ALWAYS have patterns. It's a like a combination lock. One you know the code they can't own you.

    If this guy is a come once and leave I wouldn't bother and just move tables. We don't know how long he will stay.

    I strongly suggest taking physical notes on these players if they are regulars. Their patterns are so specific that it will be hard to remember them. I deleted my notes on this one player I hadn't seen in a long time and it cost me a stack last week. If I had the notes I would have remember what a certain play of his was and how he thinks.
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