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[QUESTION][FAST TRACK POKER VIDEO 16 - PLAYING FLOP ON 3-BET POTS]

wbaby Posts: 4Subscriber
edited November 7 in Fast Track Poker Videos
Hi Bart/Ki,

Quick question, in Ki's video he has AQ off in his polarized 3-bet range against MP1.

My interpretation for polarized 3-bets in late position against mid position is to raise with our best and worst hands. 3-betting with 65/A5 suited makes sense to balance out as the bottom of ranges we play but why did Ki include AQ off in his range?

Is it for value or is it because AQ off is part of the bottom of the range?

I ask this because I feel AQ off has decent post flop playability and we have position advantage so I like calling with AQ off and choose AJ/KQ off as the bottom of my range to 3-bet in cutoff/button against a mid position raise but would like to learn your point of view and reasoning behind it.

Looking forward to your response. :D @kilee

Wbaby

Comments

  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 189Pro
    edited November 8
    wbaby said:
    Hi Bart/Ki,

    Quick question, in Ki's video he has AQ off in his polarized 3-bet range against MP1.


    My interpretation for polarized 3-bets in late position against mid position is to raise with our best and worst hands. 3-betting with 65/A5 suited makes sense to balance out as the bottom of ranges we play but why did Ki include AQ off in his range?

    Is it for value or is it because AQ off is part of the bottom of the range?

    I ask this because I feel AQ off has decent post flop playability and we have position advantage so I like calling with AQ off and choose AJ/KQ off as the bottom of my range to 3-bet in cutoff/button against a mid position raise but would like to learn your point of view and reasoning behind it.

    Looking forward to your response. :D @kilee

    Wbaby
    Yes it is the top part of the value range. Vs EP opens we don't really consider AQo as top part of our value range, but vs MP or LP, they become relatively stronger
    @wbaby
  • wbaby Posts: 4Subscriber
    Yes, that make sense. Thanks for the clarification.

    If AQo is part of the top range of the hands we 3bet VS MP, how come you mention it in some videos but in your 3bet chart only AQs is included?

    I want to apply your methodology but I feel like I am stretching if I include AJ/KQ off but you have AQ suited as the bottom of your top 3bet range against MP.

    @kilee
    1282 x 848 - 395K
  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 189Pro
    wbaby said:
    Yes, that make sense. Thanks for the clarification.

    If AQo is part of the top range of the hands we 3bet VS MP, how come you mention it in some videos but in your 3bet chart only AQs is included?

    I want to apply your methodology but I feel like I am stretching if I include AJ/KQ off but you have AQ suited as the bottom of your top 3bet range against MP.

    @kilee
    This is my bad. AQo should be top part of polar 3B range vs MP open from the CO/BTN. It is a fringe hand, and this was an oversight on my part. I flat vs EP open, but 3B vs MP or later
    @wbaby
  • wbaby Posts: 4Subscriber
    Hey Ki,

    Can you explain what happened in this example as well?

    In the same video, this hand 7:10 you have Mike's range (CUTOFF) against Villain (HJ) and you say you should have AQo, 65/54/A5s but in your preflop charts in previous modules you teach us to use polarizing 3bets in CO/BTN vs LP open which include hands like AT/AJo, 75/64/K9/Q9s.

    I am not sure if I am not understanding or you're teaching us one thing but applying something else in examples.

    Looking forward to your response.

    Thanks.

    @kilee
  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 189Pro
    wbaby said:
    Hey Ki,

    Can you explain what happened in this example as well?

    In the same video, this hand 7:10 you have Mike's range (CUTOFF) against Villain (HJ) and you say you should have AQo, 65/54/A5s but in your preflop charts in previous modules you teach us to use polarizing 3bets in CO/BTN vs LP open which include hands like AT/AJo, 75/64/K9/Q9s.

    I am not sure if I am not understanding or you're teaching us one thing but applying something else in examples.

    Looking forward to your response.

    Thanks.

    @kilee
    Great question and thanks for pointing this out. When I created the fast track video over a year ago initially, I didn't have the 3betting charts completed and available. I was using the polar and linear 3bet strategy as a guideline was was not set in stone yet. So some ranges in the video examples might not be all exactly the same. Initially instead of having concrete 3B ranges I went with more of the fluid approach where 3B ranges will vary according to configurations, villains, stacks, etc.

    I still like somewhat fluid 3b ranges, but The chart on the right is what I constructed somewhat recently at the request of the subs. This gives starting point. But try not to see it as concrete, be all, end all range. So if you see discrepancy between the charts I have posted and the ones I used in video in the past this is why.

    Didn't mean to confuse anyone and no, I'm not contradicting myself necessarily. But I can totally see where this might have caused confustion. Appreciate the Keen eye.

    FWIW, I have been working on updated ranges and I will make them available soon. Probably by the end of the year. What's deemed as appropriate is fluid and changes over time, and we have to be willing to adjust as well(just like Bart's cbet matrix that he revised recently)

  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 189Pro
    KiLee said:
    wbaby said:
    Hey Ki,

    Can you explain what happened in this example as well?

    In the same video, this hand 7:10 you have Mike's range (CUTOFF) against Villain (HJ) and you say you should have AQo, 65/54/A5s but in your preflop charts in previous modules you teach us to use polarizing 3bets in CO/BTN vs LP open which include hands like AT/AJo, 75/64/K9/Q9s.

    I am not sure if I am not understanding or you're teaching us one thing but applying something else in examples.

    Looking forward to your response.

    Thanks.

    @kilee
    Great question and thanks for pointing this out. When I created the fast track video over a year ago initially, I didn't have the 3betting charts completed and available. I was using the polar and linear 3bet strategy as a guideline was was not set in stone yet. So some ranges in the video examples might not be all exactly the same. Initially instead of having concrete 3B ranges I went with more of the fluid approach where 3B ranges will vary according to configurations, villains, stacks, etc.

    I still like somewhat fluid 3b ranges, but The chart on the right is what I constructed somewhat recently at the request of the subs. This gives starting point. But try not to see it as concrete, be all, end all range. So if you see discrepancy between the charts I have posted and the ones I used in video in the past this is why.

    Didn't mean to confuse anyone and no, I'm not contradicting myself necessarily. But I can totally see where this might have caused confustion. Appreciate the Keen eye.

    FWIW, I have been working on updated ranges and I will make them available soon. Probably by the end of the year. What's deemed as appropriate is fluid and changes over time, and we have to be willing to adjust as well(just like Bart's cbet matrix that he revised recently)

    @wbaby
  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 189Pro
    edited November 14
    KiLee said:
    KiLee said:
    wbaby said:
    Hey Ki,

    Can you explain what happened in this example as well?

    In the same video, this hand 7:10 you have Mike's range (CUTOFF) against Villain (HJ) and you say you should have AQo, 65/54/A5s but in your preflop charts in previous modules you teach us to use polarizing 3bets in CO/BTN vs LP open which include hands like AT/AJo, 75/64/K9/Q9s.

    I am not sure if I am not understanding or you're teaching us one thing but applying something else in examples.

    Looking forward to your response.

    Thanks.

    @kilee
    Great question and thanks for pointing this out. When I created the fast track video over a year ago initially, I didn't have the 3betting charts completed and available. I was using the polar and linear 3bet strategy as a guideline was was not set in stone yet. So some ranges in the video examples might not be all exactly the same. Initially instead of having concrete 3B ranges I went with more of the fluid approach where 3B ranges will vary according to configurations, villains, stacks, etc.

    I still like somewhat fluid 3b ranges, but The chart on the right is what I constructed somewhat recently at the request of the subs. I see that the chart on the left is much too tight and I didn't include hands like KJo/ATo/K9sQ9s. The principles are still the same. Polar 3b range. But the selection of combos weren’t concrete when I made the video. The chart I made on the right recently gives us some sort of starting point. But try not to see it as concrete, be all, end all range. So if you see discrepancy between the charts I have posted and the ones I used in video in the past this is why.

    Didn't mean to confuse anyone and no, I'm not contradicting myself necessarily. But I can totally see where this might have caused confustion. Appreciate the keen eye. There might be a couple more ranges that I used in the videos that might be a little different from the charts that I posted.

    FWIW, I have been working on updated ranges and I will make them available soon. Probably by the end of the year. What's deemed as appropriate is fluid and changes over time, and we have to be willing to adjust as well(just like Bart's cbet matrix that he revised recently)

    @wbaby
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