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Giving your opponents too much credit

VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I open up to $35 in a 2/5 game and get 2 callers with KK . Flop is 8s7s2d and big blind who started hand with $600 which I have covered checks and then calls my bet of $85 and third player folds. Turn is Jd and he bets out $100 into me. Now here is what I was thinking at the time. Maybe he puts me on overpair and just hit the straight and is betting small because he has a lock on hand. I called thinking I have position and let's see what he does on river. River is the 4d. So the back door flush
also got there now and he bets out $250 and only has a little over $100 behind. I end up folding and he claims he had 56 which made a straight on the river and he bet small so I didn't bet big on the turn. Clearly my play on the turn wasn't good and i should of raised or shoved. It's easy to see now that any hand like set or 2 pair would never make that small bet and the flush draw would along with any straight draw would most likely be what he had.

I struggle at 100-150bb how to play overpairs and even tptk. Obviously it's player and situational defendant but any tips on what to look for and when is it "correct" to stack off in these situations? On these wet boards would you just not worry as much about sets or 2 pairs hitting even when you get raised on flop or turn?



  • SatanLovesPoker Posts: 168Member
    With no read on villian, I think this was a good fold on your part. Honestly, on really wet boards, assuming i have no re-draw, and I sense
    strength with the villians calls, I am just trying to get to show down as cheaply as possible. But if the villian is really aggressive and bluffy
    then I think it is "correct" to stack off. Every time you have a big pocket pair, should not equate to expecting to stack someone, even for
    less than 150bbs.
  • marseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    I completely sympathize. In 100bb games, bet/folding can be tough after the flop. One thing to consider is using smaller sizing on flop, which gives you more room to maneuver on turn. At these stakes, I think calling and shoving turn lines are both fine, just a matter of reads and how you view variance. Long run, I don't think you can go wrong stacking off vs weak turn lead on wet boards. I've been seeing this alot lately. It seems like a default play of weak players when they pick up some equity. OTOH, strength on turn is usually the goods at these limits. Lots of villains will tip their two pair/set hands with big checkraises on flop or turn, making it easy to fold. Most are not good enough to take bet/bet/bet lines.
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    I also agree flop bet sizing could also be bit smaller. You really scream "chasing out the spades" here. I think most of the time when players donk the turn, it is usually because their hand picked up equity and they are blocking against bigger action, and trying to situate themselves for river bluffs when they fail to hit. So often the V is just picking up BDF draws, or hands like pair+gutter become open ended, etc...you can definitely raise hefty in these spots most of the time and feel ok that you have the best hand. As played your river fold is totally fine, V is going to have it almost always. Same if it went check/call, check call, lead out on river, V shows up with 2pr or better in that line wayyy often
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
    I'm glad you both brought up bet size. In a former post I made a smaller bet on turn and got raised with my AA and some of the feedback was your bet was too small and seemed week and he may have played back because of that. I know everything is player/situational defendant but can you give me a default line based on % of pot.
    Let's assume 2/5 game at 100-200 bb. If we have to be more specific than that lets say $750 stacks. What is a good bet on flop, turn and river with over pair or tptk .
    So let's say the pot after the flop is $100.

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