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Stud-8, rolled deuces multiway, can Hero x-f 6th playing for half?

@Bart, @-fellow-stud-8-players: I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the best line for 5th and especially 6th. Thanks for your help!

Live $8/$16 stud-8 ($2 antes)/omaha-8 half kill, 8-handed

Hero (2 2 ) 2 brings it in (dark),
2 , 3 , 6 , 9 , Q all fold to Reg Y who completes the bet with 3 , Reg Z 6 cold-c, Hero call,

4th (2.5BB):
Hero: (2 2 ) 2 A
Reg Y: 3 4
Reg Z: 6 7

Hero bet, Reg Y call, Reg Z call,

5th (4BB):
Hero: (2 2 ) 2 A T
Reg Y: 3 4 8
Reg Z: 6 7 A

Hero x, Reg Y bet, Reg Z call, Hero x/r, Reg Y and Reg Z call

6th (10BB):
Hero: (2 2 ) 2 A T K
Reg Y: 3 4 8 8
Reg Z: 6 7 A 3

Hero bet, Reg Y raises, Reg Z 3b!, Hero call, Reg Y 4b! (cap), Reg Z call, Hero call,

7th (22BB):
Hero: (2 2 ) 2 A T K (J )
Reg Y: 3 4 8 8
Reg Z: 6 7 A 3

Hero x, Reg Y bet, Reg Z call, Hero ? (I'm assuming we have to x-c getting 12-1 for half???)


3rd: In the moment I thought I was flatting for deception. In hindsight, flatting here is a clear mistake. We want raise here with hands like 3-low-suited, (A, Wheel-with a two-suit) 2 , (AA) 2 , maybe (3× 4× ) 2 , and sometimes with some moderate holdings for deception. Rolled up deuces clearly belongs in our reraising range as well.

4th: Had we reraised 3rd, leading here seems best. Given we didn't reraise on 3rd, I'm not sure if leading is the best play. Maybe we should x-c and look to x-r 5th?

5th: We should be jamming it up here by x-r with what is almost certainly the best high hand at this point, right?

Let me make a case for x-folding 6th:
- Expecting to get jammed up for 4 bets, we could be drawing very thinly (or dead) if Reg Y has trip eights or is full.
- There are no fives dead, so someone could have a straight (or make a straight on 7th).
- If we assume we have to put in 4 bets it’s as if we are getting 18-4 odds or 4.25-1, but at this point the pot is virtually always going to be split, so we are effectively getting only 2.125-1. We need about 32% equity, which we definitely have if our trips are currently good, but we probably don’t have if someone has made a straight on 6th and someone has a low, or if Reg Y has made trips or a boat on 6th.
- Our gin card (the fourth deuce) is dead.

Is x-folding 6th here crazy? If so, what's wrong with the above reasoning?

In hindsight I'm thinking about some thoughts by Ray Zee from his book, ‘In seven-card stud played straight high, it is uncommon to fold on sixth street...But in stud eight-or-better, just the opposite is true. That is, you frequently should fold on sixth street. This is because one or more of your opponents can catch a card that might mean you are drawing dead, plus there may be (at least) a bet and a a raise. In this game, sixth street is frequently jammed in a multiway pot. (In high-only seven-card stud, there are fewer times when there is more than one bet on sixth street....In seven-card stud eight-or-better, when there is a great deal of betting and raising on sixth street, the pot is virtually certain to be split...'


  • BartBart Posts: 6,048AdministratorLeadPro
    Hi Chase!

    If you brought it in blind on 3rd I would definitely start 3 betting now.

    As played on 4 I would actually go for a check raise instead of a lead out. You could be wide completing the bring in and haven’t shown any strength. You are almost certainly going to get a bet here from one of your opponents when they both catch good.

    When you lead 4, I think a check raise on 5 here is fine. Someone could have a made low but their boards aren’t connected enough to really have your high beaten.

    After you check raise 5 and lead 6, when V2 has 4 to a low, you are representing at least aces up. Unless V1 is an absolute moron he really should have at least trip 8s here and V2 obviously has a low. Expect this to get capped by V1 when V2 puts in the raise. That means you are going to have to call 3 more big bets here on 6th. I don’t know the math of the top of my head but I really could see a fold here as 222 vs 888 (or better) probably does not have the odds to draw out for half, especially when getting jammed on.

    I’ve also seen “expert” plays at the highest levels (I’ve played at least 100 hours of 150-300 OE) where the 88 hand thinks he can drive you off of the best high to chop with the low. But I can’t give a guy credit for that play at 8-16, nor do I think it would be a good play if I thought my opponent was rolled up or hit say hidden TTT or aces up expecting him (you) to fold.

  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    You're playing for half on 6th, but it's for half 3-way, so you're getting way better odds than playing for half heads up. Also, you know villain Z can't have a wheel, so you're only worried about villain Y having 888+. And if you really think he's got 888, then you are still getting odds to fill up on 7th, I'd call. Yes, he could already be full I guess, but not likely.

    Plus, it's 8/16, how good are these players? Doesn't anybody overplay two pair here in villain Y's spot? We have donkeys in our game (pot limit no less) who overplay two pair here. I'd call down.
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