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Raised on the flop -what to do

VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 game. Effective stacks $900 for both hands

Hand#1
Villain is playing fairly tight and overall he is a losing player who plays rather loose

I raise over 2 limpers on button withAQ off and he calls from bb. He checks in darl and flop is Ad5dKc and I bet $60 into $70. He quickly makes $160. What's my move? How do I play turn on a brick if he bets big? What if the turn is 10c?

Hand 2
I raise straddle with 1010 and this guys is super loose almost maniac like at times. He has raised 3 times since he sat down and twice showed raggy 2 pairs.
Flop is 955 rainbow and I bet $45 into $60 and he calls. Turn is 7d which brings back door flush draw. He checks, I bet $100 into $165 and he check raises to $260. What's my best move here?

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Vernon.. we are missing a bunch of key information here.

    1) what was your raise size preflop in both? hands

    2) What are the suits of your AQ? If you have the Q of dias that is more important to know..
  • GutShotWEEE Posts: 3Member
    hand 1) suit info would help, I would likely call and evaluate turn sense you are in position.
    hand 2) this is tough spot, his sizing looks strong. I could be talked into calling based on other history and seen hands.
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    VernonJones said

    2/5 game. Effective stacks $900 for both hands

    Hand#1
    Villain is playing fairly tight and overall he is a losing player who plays rather loose

    I raise over 2 limpers on button withAQ off and he calls from bb. He checks in darl and flop is Ad5dKc and I bet $60 into $70. He quickly makes $160. What's my move? How do I play turn on a brick if he bets big? What if the turn is 10c?
    What suits are your A and Q? What range do you put him on? Your Ace and Q make a huge difference in his range depending on their suits.
    .
    VernonJones said
    Hand 2
    I raise straddle with 1010 and this guys is super loose almost maniac like at times. He has raised 3 times since he sat down and twice showed raggy 2 pairs.
    Flop is 955 rainbow and I bet $45 into $60 and he calls. Turn is 7d which brings back door flush draw. He checks, I bet $100 into $165 and he check raises to $260. What's my best move here?
    I hope you get convincing arguments here to contradict my opinions. Here's what I think.

    Flop: I think your betsize might be a little high here. I think $35 or $40 might have been better. You're never happy stacking off with 10s so a pot control line might be good in this spot

    Turn: I might check behind here and plan to call off most turns. The 7 is a scare card for you, not your V here so a bet just opens you up without giving yourself good information as to what the V has. I notice the betsize in comparison to your flop betsize shows some weakness as well. I'd be considering bluffing you here. What reads did you have?

    AP: Fold, I don't think you're cards are not strong enough to stack off with.
  • The Clubber Posts: 110Member
    On hand one you use tight and loose to describe the same villain, so I'm too confused to give feedback.

    On hand 2, you're way ahead / way behind on the turn. It's probably better to check it back here. It's pretty hard to get value from worse or get better to fold. I think you're only getting value from a 9.

    As played, It's a little hard to figure out what bluffs are in villain's range. Is he the kind of player who correctly assumes you very rarely have a 5 here so his cards don't matter? Is the 9 a diamond? He could have a few hands you beat here that picked up more equity, like 9x of diamonds or 98, 97, 96. Getting over 2:1 on a call it's a little hard for me to find a fold. If I do call, I'm probably folding to a river diamond, 8 or 6 and getting stubborn depending in sizing on most other cards. Since there's basically a 1/3 chance I'm folding the river, I'm not sure I like calling the turn.
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
    Thehammah said

    Vernon.. we are missing a bunch of key information here.

    1) what was your raise size preflop in both? hands

    2) What are the suits of your AQ? If you have the Q of dias that is more important to know..
    1. $30. In loose games where I play $25 is standard opening raise
    2. I have no diamonds in my hand.
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
    <
    1. First hand since he straddled he had very wide range. The hand I was most concerned about was A5. I also thought he could have a flush draw with maybe the Kd or K5 . The straddle again makes what I did which was fold look pretty bad. I just thought if I called he was firing big on turn and then I'm making a decision for my entire stack of almost 200 bb with one pair. He told me what he had and I say it's about 60% chance it's true.

    2. I almost checked the turn and agree that was probably the way to go. I put him on a draw but when he check raised me I got concerned he might have a 5. He stacked my aces about 2 months ago with 56 after calling $40 preflop. He also told me he picked up a huge combo draw on the turn and I tend to believe him. Later in the night he called me down 3 streets with middle pair against my straight so I got my money back. I just tend to play too weak in these tough spots.

    As far as bet sizes , I am pretty lost as to what is right. Going to start a new thread on that topic.


    VernonJones said

    2/5 game. Effective stacks $900 for both hands

    H
    What suits are your A and Q? What range do you put him on? Your Ace and Q make a huge difference in his range depending on their suits.
    .
    VernonJones said
    Hand 2
    I raise straddle with 1010 and this guys is super loose almost maniac like at times. He has raised 3 times since he sat down and twice showed raggy 2 pairs.
    Flop is 955 rainbow and I bet $45 into $60 and he calls. Turn is 7d which brings back door flush draw. He checks, I bet $100 into $165 and he check raises to $260. What's my best move here?
    I hope you get convincing arguments here to contradict my opinions. Here's what I think.

    Flop: I think your betsize might be a little high here. I think $35 or $40 might have been better. You're never happy stacking off with 10s so a pot control line might be good in this spot

    Turn: I might check behind here and plan to call off most turns. The 7 is a scare card for you, not your V here so a bet just opens you up without giving yourself good information as to what the V has. I notice the betsize in comparison to your flop betsize shows some weakness as well. I'd be considering bluffing you here. What reads did you have?

    AP: Fold, I don't think you're cards are not strong enough to stack off with.







    blockquote>NicholasK said
    VernonJones said

    2/5 game. Effective stacks $900 for both hands

    Hand#1
    Villain is playing fairly tight and overall he is a losing player who plays rather loose

    I raise over 2 limpers on button withAQ off and he calls from bb. He checks in darl and flop is Ad5dKc and I bet $60 into $70. He quickly makes $160. What's my move? How do I play turn on a brick if he bets big? What if the turn is 10c?
    What suits are your A and Q? What range do you put him on? Your Ace and Q make a huge difference in his range depending on their suits.
    .
    VernonJones said
    Hand 2
    I raise straddle with 1010 and this guys is super loose almost maniac like at times. He has raised 3 times since he sat down and twice showed raggy 2 pairs.
    Flop is 955 rainbow and I bet $45 into $60 and he calls. Turn is 7d which brings back door flush draw. He checks, I bet $100 into $165 and he check raises to $260. What's my best move here?
    I hope you get convincing arguments here to contradict my opinions. Here's what I think.

    Flop: I think your betsize might be a little high here. I think $35 or $40 might have been better. You're never happy stacking off with 10s so a pot control line might be good in this spot

    Turn: I might check behind here and plan to call off most turns. The 7 is a scare card for you, not your V here so a bet just opens you up without giving yourself good information as to what the V has. I notice the betsize in comparison to your flop betsize shows some weakness as well. I'd be considering bluffing you here. What reads did you have?

    AP: Fold, I don't think you're cards are not strong enough to stack off with.
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
    1. He was a losing player playing tight. But in the straddle and players like to defend.

    2. I think you nailed it with picking up equity on turn. Also I didn't want to call big river bet I knew was coming. Checking turn and folding river on bad card otherwise calling would of been much better




    The Clubber said

    On hand one you use tight and loose to describe the same villain, so I'm too confused to give feedback.

    On hand 2, you're way ahead / way behind on the turn. It's probably better to check it back here. It's pretty hard to get value from worse or get better to fold. I think you're only getting value from a 9.

    As played, It's a little hard to figure out what bluffs are in villain's range. Is he the kind of player who correctly assumes you very rarely have a 5 here so his cards don't matter? Is the 9 a diamond? He could have a few hands you beat here that picked up more equity, like 9x of diamonds or 98, 97, 96. Getting over 2:1 on a call it's a little hard for me to find a fold. If I do call, I'm probably folding to a river diamond, 8 or 6 and getting stubborn depending in sizing on most other cards. Since there's basically a 1/3 chance I'm folding the river, I'm not sure I like calling the turn.
  • PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    First one spot just really sucks. Vs an unknown I probably just fold, but you could call in position especially if you have the Qd. The flush card will scare a lot of guys so sometimes you will see 2 cards for the price of one, and sometimes if he is on some kind of bizarre overplay he will shut it down and you will win.

    Hand 2, I don't understand how a seven is a scare card on a 955 board. We think his range is 86 And 77? It is villain dependent but vs most villains I would just bet turn. Lets say he is only raising trip fives or a turned combo draw. We don't beat trip 5s anyway (and guys seem to want us to call a more than $100 bet on the river anyway) and there are few combos of diamond straight+flush draws. We don't need to check back unless we think he is going to be bluffing a large percentage of the time or unless we think we would fold out low pairs a lot of the time.

    It comes down to your "maniac" description. It seems like you're saying he keeps hitting 2 pair and raising it. That is a station, not a maniac. Vs that guy you bet until he raises and then u fold. If he is raising all the time and not showing down, or showing down bluffs, then you either need to bet/call turn or if you're bt comfortable check turn and lick him off on the river.
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