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tournament dynamics

justfourfun Posts: 162Subscriber
edited January 13 in Tournament Discussion
MSPT $1,100 buy-in at Potowatami - Day 1A of 3 starting days
30,000 starting stack
Level 8 400/800 with BB ante
Villian #1 table chip leader 130,000 somewhat TAG
Villian #2 11,000 short stacked
Hero 65,000 - TAG but only at this table 1.5 levels

Hero opens utg to 2,400 with 7h7s. V1 in late position flat calls after a bit of time thinking about his move. V2 shoves from button. Hero?

Comments

  • BartBart Posts: 5,737AdministratorLeadPro
    This seems like a fold to me. Do you remember when I reviewed my hands from the Main Event Day 2 this year. This reminds me of when I had 99 UTG facing a small BB shove with people in between against Esfandari's wife.

    V2 SHOULD be extremely tight here. Like 99+ and AQ+. I know you are like 33-35% against that range but also you have to factor somewhat of a trap range in the field as well.
  • justfourfun Posts: 162Subscriber
    edited January 16
    i did not even consider folding but perhaps I should have. I was likely thinking too hard in the moment about call v. shove to even consider folding. I did think (correctly) that a flat call would induce V#1 to also flat call. Bart, I agree with your range analysis of V1 - but I might add AJ, KQ & AT suited to V1's range. I also will subtract AA, KK, QQ & JJ from V1's range. So... considering that unpaired hands in both players ranges are 4 times more likely than paired hands (uh oh, I know I am dealing with an expert here and am not really sure about that statistic its mainly guesswork I confess- which is why I do these posts!) the possibility that my 77 is up against the dream scenario of AQ and AQ led me to the flat call. I did consider a shove in this spot and later made the decision that it was a mistake not to shove. V2's range is so much wider than V1's that a heads up scenario with V2 seems an ideal situation. If my pre-flop shove gets V1 out of the hand now I have hopefully a flip (I could be dominated or have V2 dominated here - V2 shoving here with 2,2 would not surprise me) for (13.75 BB + 13.75 BB + .5 BB + 2 BB + 3 BB) 33BB's with 5.5 BB dead money in the pot.

    If I am playing my TAG game where I enter only about 15% of hands and I open here under the gun to 3x and then I get a delayed thinking flat call from V1 in late position - it seems to me that I can be very confident that my shove will get V1 to fold. I will take my chances that V1 is trapping based on table dynamics and the fact that I have played 1.5 levels (40 minute levels) with V1. If I shove here then my line is so consistent with a big pair.

    I think I should shove pre flop here.

  • justfourfun Posts: 162Subscriber
    edited January 16
    Spoiler:
    i flat called pre-flop and V1 had 9,9 and V2 had AK. No A,K,9,or 7 on the run-out and I check it down with V1 and he wins pot. Maybe the results of this hand are swaying my critical analysis??
  • BartBart Posts: 5,737AdministratorLeadPro
    Unless V2 is clueless V2 should not really be all that wide here. He has 14bbs and is faced with a UTG raise, and a call. His shove is rarely getting through both players. If I were him I could see only shoving 99+ and AQ+ here.
  • rappcity15 Posts: 39Subscriber
    V2 should see he has no fold equity when v1 flats your utg open. If you flat the shove, v1 is going to call a lot with having a huge stack, position, and closing the action. And now your playing with a weak pp with not much play ability oop against a guy who can put pressure you. Also, IMHO 80bb is too many to shove even if you think v1 is calling you light. But shoving is interesting cuz v1 might fold 88,99, AQ cuz your shoving so huge. Having said that I think fold is the best option.
  • Sliverer Posts: 1Subscriber
    First Question: Why are you 3xing? You shouldn't really go larger than 2.5x if you're not 150BB+ deep and I would probably 2.25x it, because calling ranges in live tourneys are pretty indifferent to sizing imo. That also gets rid of the problem that, facing with a 3x and a call, BTNs range should be relatively tight because you really look strong. If I face a smaller raise from a reasonable UTG Range, I'm shoving something like ATs+, AJo+, 77+, KJs+ KQo. Having a field caller can widen up this range quite a bit, when LP is flatting many hands and not calling enough. Against a 3x though, I'm going tighter because I feel like the range is a lot stronger than normal UTG and now you're getting yourself into a leveling war as the aggressor.

    As played, I think you're getting too good odds to not continue, but you can also click it up to get LP out of the hand. Make it 19500 and if CO jams, you have a snap fold.
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