Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

PAHWM: AA on button straddle against seemingly decent player

DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 1000 effective

Villain is new to area semi-regular late 20s that is very quiet. Usually plays reasonably TAG and definitely considers his actions. Have seen him make some odd big improper calls in past. Today he is less involved than usual, likely due to bad cards. Probably break even to small winner.
I have straddled button to $10 for five rounds at a loose passive table. He has raised three times to 40 + 10 / limper (it seems ) in cutoff but showed down a legitimate hand twice and won unchallenged another. I called two of the times and folded flop.

My image is mixed. I had just shown down an odd hand (63hh on all diamond board) that was clearly a flop steal in late position where the board ended up playing in medium pot. I was playing aggressively. I am a regular winning player, mid40s. He has played with me maybe ten times.

I straddle button to $10. One short, relatively tight limper, he raises to $60 in cutoff . I have AhAd. I elect to flat, limper folds. I believe he has a legitimate hand but will not put me on strong holdings if I flat.

Flop: KhJs4h

He leads 75. We?

Comments

  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    Brian said

    2/5 1000 effective

    Villain is new to area semi-regular late 20s that is very quiet. Usually plays reasonably TAG and definitely considers his actions. Have seen him make some odd big improper calls in past. Today he is less involved than usual, likely due to bad cards. Probably break even to small winner.
    I have straddled button to $10 for five rounds at a loose passive table. He has raised three times to 40 + 10 / limper (it seems ) in cutoff but showed down a legitimate hand twice and won unchallenged another. I called two of the times and folded flop.

    My image is mixed. I had just shown down an odd hand (63hh on all diamond board) that was clearly a flop steal in late position where the board ended up playing in medium pot. I was playing aggressively. I am a regular winning player, mid40s. He has played with me maybe ten times.

    I straddle button to $10. One short, relatively tight limper, he raises to $60 in cutoff . I have AhAd. I elect to flat, limper folds. I believe he has a legitimate hand but will not put me on strong holdings if I flat.

    Flop: KhJs4h

    He leads 75. We?
    Whenever people limp/flat with AA pre, they always have some kind of interesting rationale. It typically follows a line of getting more value due to hand disguise. While so many players in smaller games believe this as being highly profitable, I couldn't disagree more. I think playing AA preflop in a disguised way is TACTICAL poker, IE designed to fit a highly specific scenario against player type(s) who are very predicatble within the paradigms of postfop play. If it is almost always more difficult to build pots in the later stages of a hand (where ranges have the most definition) then your move is almost always going to be -EV. ESPECIALLY when you flat out declare that you think he has a legitimate hand. So if you raise his action (on the straddle, mind you) , he should immediately put you on AA?? Your historical play on the button straddle has context here, but not as much as youd think. Players are still going to be playing their hands PreF, the fact that he is not having a very active session should further encourage you he has a stronger holding. If hes had a bad session and has KK here, you could possibly get the money all in PreF! It always makes sense to raise in this spot where it will be heads up when you range him to strong hands. Who cares what he puts you on when you just flat? It almost always ends the same- all he is going to do is go into value mode post flop, and get scared the instant you show aggression at the pot. Get money in early.

    As played, you raise. You wanted hand disguise you got it. Hope he bites. Its a good flop for you both. Makes no sense to flat him here, but now you are going to have to hope T and R are brackish because all of the many draw cards will slow your action. And if more straight cards come you could be the one in trouble.

    All reasons to build the pot early.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Let me clarify preflop FWIW

    The villain has a propensity to call big overbets. This is day shift at the Hard Rock Tampa. The player pool does not three bet lightly. If I three bet he will correctly put me on a strong range. I think the villain bet large in the cutoff -- I ranged him as 99+, AQ+, AJs,KQs. I also expected this to be heads up. So I chose to flat and hope he would make something and I could overbet if the situation was right. He is a semi thinking player and I have a significant skill advantage - I can build a pot if I want to with this villian.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    Brian said

    Let me clarify preflop FWIW

    I chose to flat and hope he would make something and I could overbet if the situation was right. He is a semi thinking player and I have a significant skill advantage - I can build a pot if I want to with this villian.
    OK, so what are you waiting for? Build a pot. The situation is right. You got a flop with a K and a J, he either has a hand like 99 or TT and will fold to your raise (and you probably weren't going to get any more action from him anyway other than his flop c-bet), or he has a hand with a pair like AK, KQ, AJs, and he will call your raise and might even give you two or if you're lucky, all three streets of value.

    I don't get the point of this post, I'm sorry. If you have questions about a later street, let's get to it. The way you played AA pre-flop was to get exactly this result so far, so what's the question? Execute your plan for the flop and get to the part of the hand where there is an actual question, sir.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Sure
    Flop: KhJs4h

    He bets 75 I raise to 215
    Villain calls with no obvious reaction.

    Turn Tc

    Villain checks

    We?
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    Brian said

    Sure
    Flop: KhJs4h

    He bets 75 I raise to 215
    Villain calls with no obvious reaction.

    Turn Tc

    Villain checks

    We?
    Bet. Get value from worse. Fish on, take him to value town. Bet $250, ship the river if checked to.
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    Brian said

    Let me clarify preflop FWIW

    The villain has a propensity to call big overbets. This is day shift at the Hard Rock Tampa. The player pool does not three bet lightly. If I three bet he will correctly put me on a strong range. I think the villain bet large in the cutoff -- I ranged him as 99+, AQ+, AJs,KQs. I also expected this to be heads up. So I chose to flat and hope he would make something and I could overbet if the situation was right. He is a semi thinking player and I have a significant skill advantage - I can build a pot if I want to with this villian.
    Dude, every single thing you said gives more credence to getting more money in sooner. You can build a pot if you want, well why wouldn't you want to? You are ranging him med-strong...your skill advantage shouldn't trump the strong situational evidence that he is likely to get more money in on the flop. You are putting too much emphasis on your perceived hand strength, if you are weighting him to KQ, 99 ish range he is just going to c-bet/shutdown most of the time anyway unless he flops well. But given he shouldn't be folding to the bump-up preflop, and he will continue when all of his holdings do well against the board, you have more chances to build value when you raise his aggressive action with the better hand. If he has QQ, KK, in this scenarios is he ever shutting down?

    I guess to each his own, just look at your logic objectively and try to make a case where this is ever more profitable over a larger hand sampling.

    I suggested you raise his flop bet, you did. Now you bet $225-$260 and jam the river when he checks.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    Brian said

    If I three bet he will correctly put me on a strong range.
    What do you think your perceived range is when you raise this flop by the way? If it's not a "strong range", then why are you flatting pre and raising flop.

    As played, on the turn you have 750 behind and the pot is 550, so bet whatever is most likely to get looked up- 250 into 550 then 500 into 950, or 450 into 550 with 300 left if he thinks that will look bluffy

    oh, also next time you have any Kx or Ax hand, 3-bet him, cbet, keep repeating as long as you keep winning the hand right there.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I agree with Aesah. 3betting pre is much better IMO. If you are afraid that he puts you on a very strong range if you 3 bet (this is only bad if he is disciplined enough to fold pre,, which a lot of players aren't), just go ahead and 3bet him with junk once in a while, until he sees one of those hands at showdown or suspects you are light based on your 3betting frequency. That's definitely the better adjustment than not 3betting at all.

    A played, raise flop and bet every street.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Please don't focus on pre. I agree with everything that was said. I three bet 99/100 times with AA here.
    This hand I choose not to because of the quirky villian and his play this session.
    Her AAhd

    Flop: KhJs4h
    He bets 75 I raise to 215
    Villain calls with no obvious reaction.
    Turn Tc
    Villain checks

    I bet 300
    Villian tries to raise but seems confused and only puts in 500ish
    He is forced to complete to 600

    On us?
    What do we think is going on?
    What's his range and our perceived range?
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    Brian said

    Please don't focus on pre. I agree with everything that was said. I three bet 99/100 times with AA here.
    This hand I choose not to because of the quirky villian and his play this session.
    Her AAhd

    Flop: KhJs4h
    He bets 75 I raise to 215
    Villain calls with no obvious reaction.
    Turn Tc
    Villain checks

    I bet 300
    Villian tries to raise but seems confused and only puts in 500ish
    He is forced to complete to 600

    On us?
    What do we think is going on?
    What's his range and our perceived range?
    Sorry, I don't think we are all purposely bashing on your preF decisions; it was probably because you adamantly defended it as optimal. Unfortunately, that play is still rearing its ugly head. Because you have underrepped your hand, its more difficult to tightly range him here. You are repping K and combo draws on the flop, his raise here is just unexpected and really ugly. It so hard to see AK taking this line, being as he would likely just flat or jam the turn when he picks up minor equity. Even if he flopped or turned 2pr or set of 4, the 10 is a horrible card to C/R versus our PR... AhQh here would be pretty gnarly . Now sadly you have $600 tied up here with $400 behind. Hed have to be turning a one pair hand like AK or QK into a super marginal semi-bluff. Your turn bet was a bit high but nothing crazy. Wow what a spot. He has 88% of his stack in the middle. How could we ever think were good here now? But can we get away from it? Is the fact we underrepped negligible at this point given the turn action? Is this a frustration call? SO many questions would be running through my mind.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Tough spot on the turn. I guess you have to fold here, unless you think he's pretty bad postflop.
    He will show up with hands like KT, JhTh, AQ, or sets a lot of the time.
    Brian said
    Have seen him make some odd big improper calls in past.
    Based on the above, you maybe could make a case for him playing a hand like QhJh or QhTh aggressively, but there are not really a lot of combos of such hands (you also block the Ah).
    Some people go nuts with strange hands sometimes if you raise them postflop, but I doubt that's the case often enough to make it a call or shove here, unless you have a read on him or relevant history.
Sign In or Register to comment.