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Straight OOP in multiway pot, sticky turn spot

CruelUltimatum Posts: 160Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hero just got to the table from a must move, has a 100bb chip stack.

$2/$5 game

UTG limps, MP1 limps, button limps, hero has 9diamond7diamond in the SB, completes, bb checks.

All villains have at least $500, so we're effectively covered.

Flop ($22 after rake)
8heartTspadeJheart

We bet $20, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, button calls.

I guess I could have bet bigger here, but I didn't want to blow anyone off a flush draw or a top pair type hand, so if I wanted to get it heads up, I think I'd have to overbet the pot.

Turn ($100):
Theart

The fact that the board paired isn't terribly concerning to me. With such a coordinated flop, I think anyone with two pair or a set is going to raise the flop, so I'm not worried about full houses here. The heart, on the other hand, is a big concern.

What's your plan here? Are we done with the hand, assuming at least one villain was on a heart draw? Bet/fold? If your plan is to bet/fold and you are called, what's your plan on the river?

Comments

  • PhulHouze Posts: 200Member
    I guess it's more likely that a villain doesn't have hearts than that he does, but it becomes harder for you to get called by worse. I'm assuming the official answer is probably bet/fold turn, bet/fold safe river. In reality, I think I'm more likely to bet/fold turn and check/evaluate river.
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    CruelUltimatum said
    I guess I could have bet bigger here, but I didn't want to blow anyone off a flush draw or a top pair type hand, so if I wanted to get it heads up, I think I'd have to overbet the pot.
    If you think you can get called betting bigger than that's a good option.
    CruelUltimatum said
    The fact that the board paired isn't terribly concerning to me. With such a coordinated flop, I think anyone with two pair or a set is going to raise the flop, so I'm not worried about full houses here. The heart, on the other hand, is a big concern.
    I agree that the heart should be more concerning than the FH
    CruelUltimatum said
    What's your plan here? Are we done with the hand, assuming at least one villain was on a heart draw? Bet/fold? If your plan is to bet/fold and you are called, what's your plan on the river?
    I'd bet/eval fold turn with the intention of bet/folding river on a non heart board. You don't want to lose value to any random heart out there so a bet is in order. Some players will almost always bet their Aheart so I would only bet/call those opponents you know to have this tendency. Even they will shut down on the bricked river though, so a bet/fold is a good line on the river.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I think ch/calling river is better than bet folding. If you bet turn you could easily have a hand that has the Ah in it or some pair +heart that some villians might think they can get you to fold. I dont think you will be missing value from something like a T here too often since there arent too many Ts in their ranges. only like 9T and QT as i dont imagine something like T7 would call pf but i guess i dont really know your game that well.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    feel free to disregard as i am rusty on my NLHE but I would c/f turn even though it's possible you have the best hand. I think you value cut yourself too often and the risk of making a mistake on the river is also a factor (either folding to a bluff or calling vs. a value bet).

    Additionally when you bet into 3 people here on this board, your perceived range is extremely strong so it's tough to get value from worse.

    If turn checks through and river bricks out I would b/f 2/5 pot on river.
  • PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    I don't think check/calling the river is a good idea unless we have serious reads. Guys with hands as strong as king ten will check back to get to showdown fearing someone has a flush.

    I don't think someone with a naked Ah is going to suddenly bluff after we showed extreme strength by betting twice. It looks like we want to get to showdown, so I'm not sure why they'd think we'd fold.

    Whether I'd check or bet the river is also villain dependent. Against some nits they'll always just call flushes (and sometimes even boats) so we might end up value owning ourselves a lot of the time. Against stationy fish types I'd just bet because they'll look you up with all sorts of garbage.
  • CruelUltimatum Posts: 160Subscriber
    For those advocating bet/folding the turn, what's your sizing?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    bet fold.. Your bet should be on the bigger side as well. Dont bet small.. You may induce some spaz play and then you are really lost. there is about $100 in the pot.. I would bet around $75... if you are called then I would consider check folding the river..

    Its going to be very hard for you to be raised after the board pairs because anyone who might be on a flush draw has hit their hand but YOU can have a full house so I expect even the ace high flush would just call.

    And since so many players are as Bart likes to say "showdown monkeys" you will even see players with nut flushes check the river because they are afraid you are trapping them and they dont want to get check raised.. I have seen this alot..

    so DONT check turn.. then you will have to fold and you might have the best hand.. but bet closer to pot to make sure if someone does raise you you can easily fold..

    ww
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    CruelUltimatum said

    For those advocating bet/folding the turn, what's your sizing?
    I agree with Hammah on this one but would add that against players you know/know you well I would bet around $65. I hate announcing to the table that "I'm scared of the flush coming"
  • CruelUltimatum Posts: 160Subscriber
    Okay, so I bet $65. I guess I should have bet bigger (I like Wendy's $75 betsizing). I hadn't considered the possibility of a smaller size inducing a spaz play since that's not a dynamic that usually happens in the games I play in, but this would be a good board to do it.

    UTG folds, MP folds, button calls.

    River ($230):
    7spade

    for a final board runout of
    8heartTspadeJheartTheart7spade

    and we have 7diamond9diamond

    What do you do here, why, and if you bet - what's your sizing?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    So what hands that are worse would call this river? A ten? maybe but if someone had that I bet they check the river .. One good thing is that ONLY 1 person called you. I am alot more confident that they have hands with a T and a high heart..

    Now one caveot.. If the player is very passive and would NEVER raise you even on this type of board then you could make a case to bet but smallish to get called by a T on this wet of a board. Tx where its QT, KT AT all could call you and if they also have a heart to go with it.

    thats not too many combos but if you bet around $100 they might just toss in a crying call. Again if you get raised cuz the have T7 then fold.. bet fold bet fold bet fold..

    This is not the scenario that Bart talks about when you are better to check when the top pair pairs the river.. there you are likely to get more bluffs .. here I dont think you are..

    ww
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    CruelUltimatum said
    Okay, so I bet $65. I guess I should have bet bigger (I like Wendy's $75 betsizing). I hadn't considered the possibility of a smaller size inducing a spaz play since that's not a dynamic that usually happens in the games I play in, but this would be a good board to do it...
    What do you do here, why, and if you bet - what's your sizing?
    *on turn If you're planning to bet fold you don't wan't to induce spaz bluff.

    I like $165 on the river and I'm still bet/folding.
  • CruelUltimatum Posts: 160Subscriber
    NicholasK said
    CruelUltimatum said
    Okay, so I bet $65. I guess I should have bet bigger (I like Wendy's $75 betsizing). I hadn't considered the possibility of a smaller size inducing a spaz play since that's not a dynamic that usually happens in the games I play in, but this would be a good board to do it...
    What do you do here, why, and if you bet - what's your sizing?
    *on turn If you're planning to bet fold you don't wan't to induce spaz bluff.

    I like $165 on the river and I'm still bet/folding.
    Er, yeah. We're saying the same thing, although I guess I worded that ambiguously.

    What I meant to say is that I hadn't really considered the possibility that someone would spaz bluff if I bet smaller. That dynamic doesn't usually exist. But if I were to put myself in that situation, this board would be a good board for someone else to take a shot at spaz bluffing, which is of course what we don't want since I'm intending to fold to any raise at any point after the turn.

    We're on the same page there.

    When you bet $165 on the river, you're looking to get called by which hands?
  • PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    I like a small river bet. I think $100 is fine, or even like $90.

    The board is so wet that I just don't think guys will make a play at it with anything that you beat (including bluffs).

    It is a sick spot, but if you check they're just not going to bet IMO so if you check and they bet I probably actually fold to any sizeable bet.
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    CruelUltimatum said
    When you bet $165 on the river, you're looking to get called by which hands?
    Trips and 2 pair. They're still in there for me and still are calling in my game.
  • CruelUltimatum Posts: 160Subscriber
    Thanks guys. It was a tricky (and interesting) spot, so I wanted to see what others thought, and it seems like we're all mostly thinking along the same lines.

    The results:

    I decided to go for the ol' thin value bet, trying to get called by top pair or a ten (because I think I can get away with that in my game), betting $105 into $230. Villain thought for a long time before calling. My hand was good and I took down a nice pot. He didn't show.
  • PhulHouze Posts: 200Member
    nice hand
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    man i suck at nlhe
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