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2/5 Pocket aces, should I check this river?

Jax1234 Posts: 29Member
edited January 31 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 Seattle with a $500 max bet. I am the effective stack with $725. I am having a brutal session up to this point.

I am in the cutoff with two black aces. One limper in early position. I raise to $25, button, small blind and limper call.

Flop is queen of hearts, six of spades, four of hearts. Checked to me, I bet $60. Button and small blind call while the preflop limper folds.

Turn is the nine of clubs. Checked to me, I bet $230 into a pot of $280. Button calls small blind folds.

River is the ten of spades. So front door hearts miss. I ship my remaining $400. I get snapped off as the button shows a rivered straight with seven, eight of spades.

I want some help and input as to what I should have done differently. Should I have recognized that I had been rivered? I did not put the button on seven eight as I did not think he would call with a gutshot on the flop with a flush draw on the board.

I put the button on a draw but just the wrong one. I wrongly assumed the draw was a front door heart draw. I had assumed that if he had a straight draw, he would have been open ended on the flop with 7, 5 or 5, 3.

I like my turn bet because I thought I made it unprofitable for any draw to call. He did turn an open ended straight draw on the turn but he had to call $230 to win $510. But should I have tried to charge him even more on the Turn?

I guess the biggest error was on the river. If I put him on a missed draw, he is never calling an all-in. I guess king queen or ace queen could still call me. But was I better off checking and letting him bluff if he missed his heart draw? What would you guys advise doing on the river when the villain appears to miss his draw? I have been making these mistakes all month but I do want to know if I did actually err in this instance or I just got unlucky.

Comments

  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited January 31
    I would call this one unlucky. I don't think shipping here is uncalled for. All the obvious draws on the flop miss, the vast majority of players are not calling a flop bet of this size in a raised pot with just gutshot and backdoor draws. Espically when he has someone else to act after him on the flop. If you only bet like 1/4 pot on the flop you might be a little more concerned about gutshots calling, but you bet $60 into $100 against 3 other players, this is just a terrible call. And btw you are making massive value against this player until he unfortunatly makes his hand.
    If I were to be worried about anything, it would be some combo of Q10. I guess you could be possibly concerned about exactly 7 8 but thats only one combo.
    I think when you bet this river you are targeting a Queen. Unfortunately most Queens will just check behind if you check the river. I think that its just as likely he calls down with a decently strong Queen as he does a flush draw.
    I think Aces in this spot is thin, but not so thin that its only a bluff catcher. Not only that but even if he had Hearts he may not bet the river. So yeah he'll just fold if he was chasing Hearts, but he will very possibly look you up with AQ, KQ, etc. We're also probably calling any bet here, so I don't think it makes much of a difference.
    I would say that loosing to a hand that has very low equity on the flop is just kinda a bad beat.
    Most players just won't be calling with his hand on the flop, he has a terrible equity really. Even if he turns a straight draw he still has to be concerned about the front door flush draw that you could be betting. If you have AK of Hearts here you would probably play it the same way to the turn.
    Let me ask you this also? Would you check a set of Sixes on this river? I doubt you would, I think while not exactly the same, the hands both have similar hand strength on the river in relation to the board.
    This guy just got really lucky. I would notice that and realize that in the future he might ahow up with something unexpected. J wouldn't let that effect your game however. If you start playing so defensive that you don't bet your value hands like you should be, than you're missing out on massive value all over the place.
  • Jax1234 Posts: 29Member
    I would have felt more comfortable jamming the river with a set of sixes as I would not need to be worried about the possible queen ten or some other random two pair combo.

    In retrospect, I do not completely hate the way he played the hand if he was planning on bluffing any heart or queen on the river if he did not make his straight. He may have correctly put me on aces and kings and figured that he had the eight straight outs to "truly" win the hand and then an additional nine outs with the remaining queens and hearts to "bluff" win the hand.

    I could have used the Seattle rules to my advantage some more. Loose players often chase seemingly unprofitable draws because the maximum bet here is $500. I could have just jammed $500 on the turn and probably would have gotten the call anyway. I would have been left with only $100 but the advice I receive from "successful" players at the 2/5 level is that you really need to make loose players pay when they are clearly chasing draws. I still would have been stacked but at least I would have made him call $500 to win $780.

  • Shorn7 Posts: 39Subscriber
    I think turn is too large and doesn’t need to be this size to price out draws. You can do the same with $150-$175. Once he calls the turn large bet, you need to start worrying a bit that you might be behind his range. Not saying I don’t get the river, but certainly not all in. River is a clear bet/fold spot with one pair even though a number of draws missed. I think the river is $175/fold as when he shoves, it is clear you are beat. You just didn’t leave yourself ant escape hatch on this one.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,820AdministratorLeadPro
    I dont like a check call on the river at all. According to my math pot is like $620 and you have $410. Its probably close with the button calling next to act. He should have a queen here a lot. I might size a bit smaller than you did like 300-35 but other than that you played the hand fine. Bart
  • CycleV Posts: 912Subscriber
    looks fine to me, this is just a shrug-whatever
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