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Hand Post LATB from Tuesday AKo do we go with it for $15,000?

BartBart Posts: 5,737AdministratorLeadPro
edited February 10 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Post Live at the Bike from Tuesday. Game is $5-$5 $50 BB ante. This hand is straddled to $50.

History on the show...$12k effective V1 (Taylor) opens at 5-5-$50 to $175 in CO, Hero 3! to $500 w 7 8 button. Taylor 4! to $2200 Hero folds, shown A3os.

Hand in Question

$5-$5 $50BB ante.

UTG (v1, Taylor) Straddle to $50. I open UTG+1 ($20k) with A K to $200, Dennis (MP1 $4k) calls, Antwan ($15k button) calls, LG ($6k sb) 3! $1200, V1 ($15k straddle) 4! to $4000. Hero?

When sb (LG) makes it $1200, I strongly believe he's going with his hand and V1 knows that.. do we live to fight another day here?

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Comments

  • workinghard Posts: 1,545Subscriber
    feels close. i think the taylor being against a potential all in makes the dynamic different than the first hand example. also, being against 2 opponents effectively vs just one means more chance one of them has some of your AK outs, If one guy has AQs and another has JJ, for example, your outs vs the JJ hand are diminished. Or if one of them has AKs thats awful for you. so, for those reasons, fold for this cost. against just LG or perhads just taylor giving his play history, i might go with it
  • geemondc Posts: 27Subscriber
    Fold
  • Piggy Posts: 89Subscriber
    Sick spot. I think it comes down to dynamics but I admit I’ve got very little experience playing this deep, and zero experience at these stakes.

    I would break the problem down into 2 portions:

    LG is never folding, obviously. Assuming LG is a whale, are we ahead of (or flipping with) LG’s 3b/GII range?

    If the answer to Part 1 is “yes”, then what is Taylor’s 4b ISO range? If he also knows LG is never folding,is he always nutted here (QQ+, AK)? How often, if ever, is Taylor 4b ISOing with hands like AQ/AJ, JJ/TT?
    by 1MrO
  • Xboblove Posts: 119Member
    edited February 10
    Well, it's not all in preflop. If LG jams, it's not a raise so Taylor is blocked from over-shoving and can only call. This is a good place to stop and go and assess the flop texture before mutual assured destruction.

    Edit: Post flop it's a 3 SPR pot, we'll bias toward committing.
    by 1MrO
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    Do you really need to take these marginal spots with your post flop skills?
    by 1Sonny
  • ds2uared Posts: 184Subscriber
    edited February 11
    What are the house rules regarding raise sizes? Would you get to see at least a flop for $4,000 to $6,000 because of the size of V1's raise. When LG shoves, can V1 back-raise all-in if you flat?

    If I am wrong about that, disregard.

    That being said, I think folding here is criminal. You say LG has a hand he's definitely going with. At this relative depth (way out of my personal depth) why can't V1 be making the same read against LG with AQ, 99+, against which you have fold equity and some extra dead money.

    They could have Aces, which would be a disaster, but I really hate folding.
  • Xboblove Posts: 119Member
    Letmewin1 said:
    Do you really need to take these marginal spots with your post flop skills?
    I'm not sure it's so marginal. If I'm right about the bet blocking, we're getting 3/1 (priced in against all hands but AA and KK) with implied odds on Taylor. If we read the 4k bet as an iso (why would AA or KK iso with money left against us?), we're in good shape in this spot.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,737AdministratorLeadPro
    Spoiler:
    So I ended up folding.. Mp1 actually backjammed all-in. Sb and Straddle of course got all in

    Straddle= KK
    SB= JJ
    MP1 = A J

    Board ran out 9 5 2 A 7

    Would have won about $20-$25,000.. Ha!
  • workinghard Posts: 1,545Subscriber
    edited February 13
    Bart said:
    Spoiler:
    So I ended up folding.. Mp1 actually backjammed all-in. Sb and Straddle of course got all in

    Straddle= KK
    SB= JJ
    MP1 = A J

    Board ran out 9 5 2 A 7

    Would have won about $20-$25,000.. Ha!
    My read of the situation was pretty close. Pair vs weaker ace. Actually, it was worse than i thought.
  • Dab44 Posts: 408Subscriber
    BART we already know you folded, we didn’t need the spoiler, you nit....lol jk
  • FriendlyFish Posts: 83Member
    In the first hand where he 4b bluff, it was CO vs Button heads up.

    This hand is a multiway, cold 4B against SB’s 3B vs UTG raise.

    2 complete different scenario so I wouldn’t use the hand history as relavant information for this hand.

    UTG raising range is tight, SB’s 3B range should be QQ+. Straddle cold 4B should be KK+, AKs

    You shouldn’t be happy with anything but AA here. This deep even with KK I am not happy at all, probably would still gii but not fist pumping. This makes AK a pretty easy fold imo.
  • TaylorC Posts: 2Subscriber
    FriendlyFish said:
    In the first hand where he 4b bluff, it was CO vs Button heads up.

    This hand is a multiway, cold 4B against SB’s 3B vs UTG raise.

    2 complete different scenario so I wouldn’t use the hand history as relavant information for this hand.

    UTG raising range is tight, SB’s 3B range should be QQ+. Straddle cold 4B should be KK+, AKs

    You shouldn’t be happy with anything but AA here. This deep even with KK I am not happy at all, probably would still gii but not fist pumping. This makes AK a pretty easy fold imo.
    In this spot I have 0 bluffs. It would be an absolute spew when I know I’m getting at least one call with LG. The only thing I would do different is change my raise sizing. I think with effective stack sizes I should have leaned more towards a jam. Basically any raise there is committing me to the hand. I don’t think AJ would be calling off there as well and I would scoop.
  • Sonny Posts: 371Subscriber
    Bart said:
    Spoiler:
    So I ended up folding.. Mp1 actually backjammed all-in. Sb and Straddle of course got all in

    Straddle= KK
    SB= JJ
    MP1 = A J

    Board ran out 9 5 2 A 7

    Would have won about $20-$25,000.. Ha!
    Would have won sure, but would have been all in for $15k and only have two live outs. So great fold, even though it sucks and you would have won a monster pot.
  • hustlin Posts: 252Subscriber
    So sick so sick.
    Will have to nit fold this. Just too deep to gamble here. Thou sometimes maybe ur ahead lol.

    AKs here gna have to gamble since LG in
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