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5/5 How to extract more value?

MattyB Posts: 55Subscriber
1100 effective, main villain on btn covers. I’m fairly new to the room and just sat down. I’ve played with the villain 1 time recently, late 20’s, solid regular, seems to be a winning player, is friendly with me and remembers me. Probably views me as tight.

UTG (unknown) opens to 20. I call in CO with JJ. Villain calls on btn. Both blinds fold.

Flop ($70) - Jd 9x 3d

UTG checks. I bet 40. Villain calls, UTG folds.

Turn ($150) - 3x

I bet $60 to both keep his draws in and hopefully induce something. He raises to $250. Mission accomplished.

What’s my play?

I definitely feel like I induced him to make a play on me with my small sizing here. How can I extract more from him?

Comments

  • +AV Posts: 7Subscriber
    I think you tank call and if river comes diamond you can bet 2/3 and let him overplay is flush, if he does have a boat money is going in anyway so ship it. I don’t see raising as a good play here, yes you’re deep but you’re folding out his bluffs I think, if you raise to the appropriate size that it. Call here is the move.
  • +AV Posts: 7Subscriber
    edited April 21
    I guess a mini pop could be okay? Idk though. On non diamond rivers maybe bet half or smaller for value and to get looked up by QQ TT. If he raises here you’re obv calling anyway so. My assessment could be off but I still think calling is best play on turn.
  • sivaddivad Posts: 339Subscriber
    edited April 21
    I guess betting small on the turn is okay. I might check call here having so much of the board crushed. As played, I’m calling. You have so much of the board crushed and given the description, you probably have the best chance to get more money in by giving him another opportunity to bluff or catch a straight or flush on the river that he would bet for value. If he has 99 or a 3, you should be getting near max whether you call or raise turn (on most run outs).
    by 1Sonny
  • ARTKING Posts: 2Subscriber
    You flat call because you have the 2nd nuts only thing that bet you is packet 33 and like Bart said you can’t be scared of monsters under the bed. Unless a 9 comes I think your best, but I feel like he has 99’s or flash draw or Ad bluff so your move is to see the river then bet your boat. And go for Value. You can’t rerease the turn because if he is bluffing he will just fold. That would be my move.
  • BeauMoore Posts: 10Subscriber
    I think turn is an easy flat. He's heavily weighted towards draws. He shouldn't really ever have a 3 here. Then I guess I would check shove a brick, lead on diamond, Q or 8. I think raising turn would be a mistake.
  • Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited April 21
    Why are you not 3 betting pre? Sure a UTG open is strong, but JJ is certianly strong enough to 3 bet for value pre against a UTG raise.
    Whats your plan on the flop after you flat if you dont flop a set? Just fold all boards with a Queen or higher? What if the board is like 8 or 9 high and UTG bets? Are we just calling down?

    As played once we get to the turn, I think you just have to flat. He 4x'ed your $60 bet. Thats a big bet. If you raise that looks tremendiously strong, probably too strong. If he raised to like $180, maybe you can 3 bet the turn, but given his large sizing, if you 3 bet after he makes it $250 its going to be fairly obvious you have a huge hand and he might even hero fold a 3 if he somehow has one.
    Once you call the $250 the pot is $650 and you have like $800 left. I dont know if you are going to be able to get all the money in.
    Being out of position and flatting does kinda suck since you pretty much have to check the river to him and hope has a hand and he fires or he bluffs. If he does bet he might even just jam and you can snap him off. If you check and he bets less than all in, obvious jam.
    If you just flat the turn I think you just have to check the river no matter what.
    I think there is a very good chance he'll bet the river though, if he has a combo draw or something he'll obviously bet if he makes his hand, and if he doesn't hes going to know he isnt good so I imagine he may bluff. Then if he does have a value hand I think hes betting when checked to. Yeah if he is turning something like A9 of Diamonds or 1010 into a bluff on the turn he may check back the river, and might have called if you lead the river, but I seriously doubt thats whats happening here.
    I think if the flush comes in and he doesnt have the flush but has trips or some other value hand on the turn, he might check back, but I think thats just the risk you have to take... If the flush comes in and you lead, I think hes folding most hands that are worse than a flush. Leading any river after flatting the turn is very strong and is pretty much always value.
  • +AV Posts: 7Subscriber
    sivaddivad said:
    I guess betting small on the turn is okay. I might check call here having so much of the board crushed. As played, I’m calling. You have so much of the board crushed and given the description, you probably have the best chance to get more money in by giving him another opportunity to bluff or catch a straight or flush on the river that he would bet for value. If he has 99 or a 3, you should be getting near max whether you call or raise turn (on most run outs).
    I am not check calling here..... we aren’t trying to maintain a balance I’m trying to build an OOL pot with an OOL hand.
  • MattyB Posts: 55Subscriber
    Sonny said:
    Why are you not 3 betting pre? Sure a UTG open is strong, but JJ is certianly strong enough to 3 bet for value pre against a UTG raise.
    Didn’t want to get into this, but yes, I agree, should have 3bet pre :)
  • MattyB Posts: 55Subscriber
    Consensus seems to be to just flat. I agree, and that’s what I did after tanking for a minute or so.

    River ($650) - 2s

    Complete brick. What’s my play now?
  • the_dude_abides Posts: 331Subscriber
    Good chance V has nothing, so check to him and hope he bluffs.
  • Latrell1515 Posts: 235Subscriber
    I feel he has A3 or a missed draw..I'd actually bet on the latter but then again your turn bet looks weak to a better player I would think..a bet looks soo strong on the river, I agree with the check river and let him bet.You have a 'reveal'?
  • ds2uared Posts: 267Subscriber
    3 bet pre to $60 or $65.

    AP, good flop sizing.

    On this turn, I think you need to size up. At this point, you can target draws with a larger bet. $80-$90 will still get draws to call. I try to not induce bluffs except from especially bluffy and/or poor players. If he is a decent player, don't try to get them to do exceptionally weird shit.

    AP, I see no reason to not min-raise this turn. Only 1 Jack out there. a 9 is probably not turning his hand into a bluff on the turn. A 3 is awesome and they are never folding. And to a min-raise, a draw (big or not) will likely not fold. Make it $475 to $500. I really don't want to see the wrong draw or no draw hit and have him freeze up.

    AP, check this river 100% of the time. He has the initiative, all draws bricked out, and all his value hands are likely going to go for more value. And I hope if he does not say all-in, you do, after he says what amount he is donating to you.
  • MattyB Posts: 55Subscriber
    Latrell1515 said:
    I feel he has A3 or a missed draw..I'd actually bet on the latter but then again your turn bet looks weak to a better player I would think..a bet looks soo strong on the river, I agree with the check river and let him bet.You have a 'reveal'?
    Sorry for the late response. The river ended up going check/check, and I never saw what he had.

    Seems like everyone agrees to check the river, but in hindsight, I'm wondering what a small river donk/block bet of $100-150 would have made him do?

    Thanks for the responses. Definitely could have min-raised the turn and either got the same result or probably max value if he calls with a draw.
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