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What is the rake and how can I Beat it

ARTKING Posts: 2Subscriber
I play 1/3 at mgm national Harbor and I think the rake is like 10% and I know that’s kind a hard to beat up on the long time but sometimes I really don’t understand the whole structure of rakes drops and stuff in that manner. so if you could explain a little bit more to me about that kind of thing and what to do other then to move up in the blinds. Thank you I’m a big fan and I like what y’all are doing and keep up the good work.


  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,373Subscriber
    The rake depends on the cap also. You would rather have 10% rake than a drop as long as the rake has a cap.

    Look at the rake/cap a ratio of the pot. And this is a VERY simple example of how rake impacts profit

    Say you can make $30 an hour at this 1/3 game at best assuming the following.
    $5 cap 10% rake with full $300 stacks.
    We assume the average pot is $60 or 20bbs.
    If you are playing 30 hands per hour and seeing 6 you should win roughly 50%.

    So take a hand.... you raise $15 get 2 callers.
    $46 pot $15 of it yours (we assume the BB called)
    You CB $30 and take it down.

    You risked $45 to win $31 .You risked $45 to win $31.
    Now average it out with the 6 hands per hour vs 2 players assuming you CB 66% of the time and XF 33% of the time.
    2 hands you are losing $30 with no chance of winning.
    4 hands you are winning 3 for $93 and losing $35 in one hand.

    +Win$93 - XF$30 - BF$35 = $28 profit per hour no rake.....

    Now put in 10% rake with $5 cap.
    $28 profit for 3 hands won is $13.

    Now put in 10% rake with NO cap.
    $28 profit for 3 hands won is $-14.

    Now put in $7 drop
    $28 profit for 3 hands won is $7.

    So say in this example players were short. These are the kind of figures you can get. If you double the average winnings assuming double the pot the wins come out to $41, $14, $21 instead. Big difference.

    With high rake you need large stacks so those big pots make up for these shit stain pots and the rake.

    In San Fran I played for a while when I 1st got there a $4 bring in 1/1/2 game. It was a giant loser because it was a straight $7 drop but the largest contributing factor was that everyone bought in for $60-$100 most of the time. The game was unbeatable in this format due to the drop. if the table had $300 each player it was very beatable.

    I haven't even mentioned the skill level. But at a short stacked game with high rake/drop it is unbeatable no matter how bad the players are. Either you can't bluff or you can't get enough value to make it work. And even if you could it wouldn't be worth it. making $5 @ 1/3 sucks and is pointless. Might as well be a rakeback pro online.
  • CycleV Posts: 991Subscriber
    You also can ask the floor managers what the structure is. It's part of their job to make sure you know the rules, and most will be glad to take a moment and explain.
  • fishcake Posts: 952Subscriber
    I wouldn't waste my time with any 1/2 or 1/3 outside of Vegas. Just get/have a job or grind it up online.
  • CycleV Posts: 991Subscriber
    OP has 2 posts and admits he doesn't fully undersand rake structures, and y'all tell him to jump into 2/5. That's bonkers. Esp when he said "other than move up in blinds."

    He doesn't play in a flat drop game, so he can cut his teeth just fine at 1/3. My first 1000 hours were at 1/2 and 1/3 with a high drop, and I made over $15/hr. For a noob that's completely acceptable.

    Here's some of what I think you need to know: There is a max rake. 1/3 in my city it's 10% up to an $8 max rake, with $2 taken out at $20 for BBJ and high hand promos. Yours migh max at 6 or 7, you should definitely know the rake structure! In general this means that limping and playing small pots sucks. You are better off playing tight and aggressive, so you play fewer pots but bigger ones.

    You'll learn lots of awesome stuff here, but not everything will apply to the lower stakes. As Fuzzy mentioned, you don't have the stack depth to run many multi-street bluffs, but that doesn't mean you can't ever bluff. You also don't really have the stack depth to play hands like 87s from EP, and you almost never can call a raise with SC either. So some of the fun, sexy hands you won't get to play (profitably). As you develop sound strategies, especially preflop (where in low-stakes most of the work is), you'll find you're one of the tightest people at the table. That's fine! Ego loses money, discipline makes money.

    There's a series of videos as a curriculum for new-ish players, and idk where in it it is, might even only be on podcast, but look for "15-25-35". it's about how deep you need to be to play hands like sc and small pp.
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